Investment - Drum Mics

Viral_Tyler

Viral_Tyler

Member
Oct 12, 2011
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6
New Mexico, USA
I have a full basswood 7 piece Ddrum kit with full evans heads (removed reso kick head) and 11 Zildjian cymbals.

My next step is getting an interface, some mics, and a pre-amp.

I wanted to roll with a pretty much full Audix setup, they seem to get good reviews, great signal with great durability, and I have no mics other than a MXL 63M condenser mic, which I will use for the room mic. I also have an Audix vocal mic, but it will be used for talk-back. I plan on using a dual channel pre-amp for both my kick and room mic, using the 1/4" out on the pre-amp I won't need to use any DI-boxes (if I'm making a mistake anywhere tell me).

I plan on using an X-Y pattern with the overheads. And the room mic placed somewhere in the front-center of the kit.


This is the list I was thinking of:

7 - Audix i-5 (instrument mic)
2 - Audix Fusion F15 (overhead condensers)
1 - Audix D6 (kick mic)
1 - ART Digital MPA-II 2 Channel Tube Mic Pre-Amp


I guess my question really is....

Could I get any better results for a cheaper expense?

Or am I pretty much heading in the right direction?
 
Ditch the preamp. It won't be any better than what's on your interface to begin with.

the F15's are fucking *awful*. i5 is good on snare, but if you don't have a 57 you might as well get one of each and use the one you like less on snare bottom. The D2/D4's are much more suited to toms than the i5 or 57 would be. D6 is great on kick.

For cheap overheads, look into the Rode NT-5 and Oktava MC012's. Hard to beat either for the price. I'd also recommend going A/B instead of X/Y on overheads, but that's a personal preference. Stereo room I find to be infinitely more useful than mono, so maybe look into that, as well.

With 11 cymbals, you're going to be lacking stereo image with just two overheads. You're going to want at least hat/ride spots, and it'd be great to have china spots, as well.
 
Thanks for the responses :)

JeffTD said:
Ditch the preamp. It won't be any better than what's on your interface to begin with.
Click to expand...

Cool, that can save me $400 bucks.

Should you know.. I'll be using the Tascam US1800 interface(due the 8 - xlr and 6 - 1/4" inputs) with Cubase 5 to track and edit, and also Wavelab to master with.

JeffTD said:
the F15's are fucking *awful*. i5 is good on snare, but if you don't have a 57 you might as well get one of each and use the one you like less on snare bottom. The D2/D4's are much more suited to toms than the i5 or 57 would be. D6 is great on kick.
Click to expand...

I see lol.

The D2 connects to the D-Vice mic/rim clip, which is very nice. And the D2/D4 mics are way smaller compared the the other instrument mics such as the i-5 and SM57.

I will consider getting 2 - SM57's too cause my band also needs some for both guitars.

JeffTD said:
For cheap overheads, look into the Rode NT-5 and Oktava MC012's. Hard to beat either for the price. I'd also recommend going A/B instead of X/Y on overheads, but that's a personal preference. Stereo room I find to be infinitely more useful than mono, so maybe look into that, as well.
Click to expand...

I'm not really experienced with A/B setups yet, I'm sure I'll warm up to it eventually.

I could only find the Oktava MC-012's on eBay for over $400, the Rode NT5's are on Amazon for $220 each.

JeffTD said:
With 11 cymbals, you're going to be lacking stereo image with just two overheads. You're going to want at least hat/ride spots, and it'd be great to have china spots, as well.
Click to expand...

My hi-hat is pretty damn loud, and so is the china. The main ride brim seems pretty soft compared to everything now that I think about it, and the bell on the ride is louder than the 2 - 16" crashes and the 1 - 18" crash and the 18" crash/ride, but the brim is softer sounding. Maybe its my playstyle, I also haven't heard anyone else play the kit except for myself, when I'm behind the kit respectively(no mics yet, just that one condensor).

So in the long run.. I need 2 more pencil condensers to make the kit standout, and another room mic to capture even more stereo essence?

Since I'm already using a MXL v63m condenser, should I buy another one to match its pattern? Or should I get a different mic all together?

What about the Audix F9 and Audix ADX51 pencil condensers? I'm just trying to think of ways that I can save cash right now even though the Rode NT-5 is the same price as the ADX51; I can always get better gear later. With other brands of mics, I would think you'd get different sound variances. So maybe I'm rolling with 2 - Rode NT-5's for OH's, and 2 - Audix - ADX51 for spot mics, or just 4 - Rode NT-5's?
 
Viral_Tyler said:
My hi-hat is pretty damn loud, and so is the china. The main ride brim seems pretty soft compared to everything now that I think about it, and the bell on the ride is louder than the 2 - 16" crashes and the 1 - 18" crash and the 18" crash/ride, but the brim is softer sounding. Maybe its my playstyle, I also haven't heard anyone else play the kit except for myself, when I'm behind the kit respectively(no mics yet, just that one condensor).

So in the long run.. I need 2 more pencil condensers to make the kit standout, and another room mic to capture even more stereo essence?

Since I'm already using a MXL v63m condenser, should I buy another one to match its pattern? Or should I get a different mic all together?

What about the Audix F9 and Audix ADX51 pencil condensers? I'm just trying to think of ways that I can save cash right now even though the Rode NT-5 is the same price as the ADX51; I can always get better gear later. With other brands of mics, I would think you'd get different sound variances. So maybe I'm rolling with 2 - Rode NT-5's for OH's, and 2 - Audix - ADX51 for spot mics, or just 4 - Rode NT-5's?
Click to expand...


It's not about volume of the cymbals - it's about being able to pan them more specifically, automate volumes more effectively, and process them in different ways to accentuate the parts and make the stereo image wider/more accurate, among other things.

In the long run, yeah - OH + hat/ride spot and a stereo room setup would be clutch. I really don't like tracking or mixing drums without that setup, unless the drummer doesn't use the ride much.

Another of the same LDC mic would be exactly what you're looking for, correct.

Ignore the F series entirely. The ADX51's aren't bad, but it'd be incredibly hard to go wrong with the Rodes. I'd opt for the two different sets just for variety's sake.
 
JeffTD said:
It's not about volume of the cymbals - it's about being able to pan them more specifically, automate volumes more effectively, and process them in different ways to accentuate the parts and make the stereo image wider/more accurate, among other things.

In the long run, yeah - OH + hat/ride spot and a stereo room setup would be clutch. I really don't like tracking or mixing drums without that setup, unless the drummer doesn't use the ride much.

Another of the same LDC mic would be exactly what you're looking for, correct.

Ignore the F series entirely. The ADX51's aren't bad, but it'd be incredibly hard to go wrong with the Rodes. I'd opt for the two different sets just for variety's sake.
Click to expand...

Looks like I'm spending $1500 lol. damn.
 
^That's not a lot to spend for what you're getting. The next purchase I wanna make is an Earthworks DK25/R set, which costs about that much for 3 mics. But I can use all of those on just about anything I record... The downside is I'm still gonna need to shell out around $200-250 to get materials for treating my recording space (making portable bass traps for the room corners and using leftovers to treat the ceiling/wall joints on a couple of sides).

You'll spend more money setting up to record drums than just about anything else :p Those costs up there don't count the fact that I'm wanting to get a Beyer M201 for snare and a ribbon of some sort (M130 or a cheaper Royer) for side snare/hat micing. A Peluso P12 would make a killer room mic, but it costs as much as the Earthworks kit by itself (though it's going to become a primary choice for guitar cab micing as well).
 
Yeah $1500 isn't bad. I bet you can do better if you go used. Most pro studios are at that mark in overhead mics alone (not even including the stands, cable, or preamps).

Also: I don't think 57s are that bad on toms 12" and under if your looking to save a little cash from the start (if you already have some).

Also: The F14 isn't bad, the problem is you can't buy it separate from that shitty package they make. But that mic sounds very similar to a D6, it just doesn't capture the super low thump of the kick as well, but the curve is very similar. Honestly if I was forced to use one it wouldn't piss me off haha. But like I said, you can't buy it as a single mic (DUMB).

Also: I started on the fusion 6 pack, and agree with everyone here every single mic in the package blows (the F14 is not included in the 6 pack). The F15s were especially bad, but the F10s and the single F12 were equally shitty. Skip that series it's just not worth the shitty that is that set.
 
I understand you're getting your money's worth, but are there any cheaper solutions that work good? Mainly just overheads.

I've spent $3000 on music gear alone so I've got a good start there. Only problem is I'm on minimum wage working at a cafe full time (about 40 hours a week), here in New Mexico its $7.50 an hour (and I get tips).

So I get paid about $700 a month after taxes and cheap bills, and gas isn't cheap here either.

Everyone has to start somewhere I suppose.
 
If you're on a tight buget I'd recommend going for the best OH mics, kick and snare mics you can and going for lesser mics on toms, spot mics and snare bottom and kick out.

Maybe a d6, i5/57, and mc012's/nt-5's and then something like the Samson Q-kit pack http://www.thomann.de/ie/samson_5kit_drumset_2.htm to fill out the toms and snare bottom and kick out. I've used that set for a good few live sound gigs when my own audix mics were being used elsewhere and I was shocked how decent they sounded. This way you've a good bulk of your kit sounding using great mics and then the mics lower in the mix and rarely used aren't as high quality.

Also I own the Audix f-15 SDC and can agree it isn't great. Got one when they were on blow out for like 35 euro and use it as a cymbal spot mic. Sounds significanty worse than my oktavas.
 
JeffTD said:
^^You've just described exactly why it's bullshit for people to charge the $50/song rates you see in home studios.
Click to expand...

Wow, how could someone even offer to do that...

That is absurd lol, which would also describe why so many bands demo's are shit.



Thank for helpin' me out guys. You rock.
 
Viral_Tyler said:
Thanks for the responses :)

The D2 connects to the D-Vice mic/rim clip, which is very nice. And the D2/D4 mics are way smaller compared the the other instrument mics such as the i-5 and SM57.
Click to expand...

Note that if you have floating systems for your toms, the D-Vices might not fit or are too fiddly to get in any good position. It's a nice idea, but the execution is lacking. I'd strongly suggest using proper mic stands for toms and everywhere else, that way there's less chance of the mic picking up vibrations and crap via the clamp.

+1 on the Rodes or Oktavas. Not too hot on the Samsons, but I haven't checked out their latest offerings.
 
Hello fellow New Mexican!

I have been really happy with my Karma K10's. Cheap as hell and they sound great. I was sold on them after hearing them on a shootout with Gefells. I thought they did better.

57's on snare, D6 all excellent choices. For toms you could do worse than something like the Shure PG kit. I bought a set 10 years ago for live sound and I still use them with drummers that I fear will hit them. The OH's in that kit are totally lifeless but work pretty well for spot miking. I personally hate clamps for the studio, most of the time they are too close to the toms and get in the way. Regular stands are better and for cheap, grab those Musician Friend 6 or 10 packs. MCM Electronics sell 4 packs. They break, but to me about as often as stands I paid $30-$50 a piece for. I am careful with mine so I typically get a couple years out of them.

You can do a lot with just 3-4 mics. Look up the recorderman technique for instance. With a great kit, you can get pretty solid drum sounds that way. Definitely good enough to get your recordings going while you continue to save.

Keep in mind, buy cheap buy twice... damn I have to remember that :bah:
 
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