Is my SM57 broken?!

[slaven22]

Concerning this topic, my sm57 sounds strange... like there are no mids... all is distant sounding, thin... treble and bass are pronounced but no midrange bite, in your face sound...
On vocals (when I speak into it) it sounds fine but when I listen to some speech sm57 clips from the internet, I'm hearing those in your face mids that I'm missing with mine...


The mic seems to be in perfect condition.


I tried changing speakers, different heads, different preamps, different positions of the mic, but there is always something missing. Maybe it's not the mic?

I can get good sound afterwards with match eq or something but I want good raw sound...


The signal chain is EMG - tubescreamer- Peavey 6505- TT 412 V30's cabinet- SM57-Focusrite ISA...


This si raw sound...

http://soundcloud.com/slaven22/peavey-ts

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Concerning this topic, my sm57 sounds strange... like there are no mids... all is distant sounding, thin... treble and bass are pronounced but no midrange bite, in your face sound...
On vocals (when I speak into it) it sounds fine but when I listen to some speech sm57 clips from the internet, I'm hearing those in your face mids that I'm missing with mine...

From that clip, the issue is all in your mic technique. The mic is in a very bad location.

Now on to Clark Kent's response about 57s and 58s not being the same mic. The two mics have the same capsule, and the diaphram and coil is is identical for the 57/58 and Beta57/Beta58. The enclosure around which holds the windscreen in place are varies slightly and the Beta series have a different mounting capsule but none the less the actual part of the mic that converts sound to electrical signals are all the same, down to the weight of the magnet and the same Mylar diaphragm.

I did a tone test some time ago on here comparing a 57 to a Beta 58 and a KSM27. Not much of a difference, in the mix they sounded almost the same, solo'd the 57 had a touch more 6-10K and was a little more aggressive, but the differences were so minor in a dense mix and with eq, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

To me, the 57 and 58 lack quality low mids that don't sound stuffy, they don't carry too much low end either, it you want low end and more mids, you need to rock an LDC. Yes the 57 has a bit more bite on the top end and a slight dip in the upper bass/low mids transition, but that is why I personally like them. If I want to warm something up, I will go to my KSM27 for that.

 

[BLUElightCory]

This might seem like an obvious question, but what measures did you take to ensure that the diaphragms on both mics were in exactly the same spot when making the comparisons? Even a 1/4-1/2" difference can have a pretty big effect with these mics.

 

[slaven22]

From that clip, the issue is all in your mic technique. The mic is in a very bad location.

Well it may sound like that, but I believe that's not the problem.
This is probably the best position for the mic, others are MUCH worse... I tried every position and every speaker. I lifted the cabinet off the ground, I even put some absorption panels around, everything to make sure that there are no frequency cancellations. This is standard position, as I can remember, center but off axis 45 degrees, or facing edge of the cone. One of the standard positions that get the work done. Close miked.

I spent days moving around that cabinet with my hadphones on, listening to every possible mic position, trying to find some midrange in there... but there is simply no midrange in there... only this scooped sound. Tried boosting mids on amp... no midrange...

I tried other preamps, other pickups... the only thing i did not try is another sm57 because I cannot borrow it from anyone near... and there is no use in buying the new one, if this one is ok...

As my friend said, it sounds like scooped metal zone.

I tried to throw one of my condenser mikes in there and record. With Violet design BK condenser, sound is much better and fuller, close to what it is expected...

I also have some dynamic sennheisers, e-series, I'll try to record something with that, just to see if the midrange appears.


If it's not the mic problem, than it is probably the cabinet because I tried it with my other amps. Always that scooped sound. But the cabinets sound good in the room.

I only have Laney cabinets at my home studio. Never tried this setup with anything else...

This one is Laney TT 412, with v30 speakers.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

This is standard position, as I can remember, center but off axis 45 degrees, or facing edge of the cone. One of the standard positions that get the work done. Close miked.

Think again. That mic position is not standard at all. You might want to try the 57 on axis pointing exactly where the dustcap meets the cone and 1 inch away from the grille cloth. That is the standard starting point for metal guitars, tweak from there, YMMV.

If it's not the mic problem, than it is probably the cabinet because I tried it with my other amps. Always that scooped sound. But the cabinets sound good in the room.

If your ears are correctly trained for good room sound, bad recorded tone ALWAYS comes from bad AE technique. Though it could be very well how you are dialing in your tones.

Don't blame the 57, it is a great mic, and it is the industry standard for micing instruments, if it doesn't sound good, then 99.9% of the time it is your fault. Also, don't blame the cab, you can get damn good results with any plywood cab with V30s in it. If it sounds bad, guess what, its probably your fault.

 

[slaven22]

Think again. That mic position is not standard at all. You might want to try the 57 on axis pointing exactly where the dustcap meets the cone and 1 inch away from the grille cloth. That is the standard starting point for metal guitars, tweak from there, YMMV.

Well, maybe i didn't express myself correctly (english is not my native language), but the other position I mentioned is the position you are suggesting. Close miked or 2,3, centimeters from the grill, facing the meeting spot of dustcap and the cone. I prefer close mic, depends of the impedance settings on my mic preamps.
As I said, I really tried every position. And yes, during all these years I also went through slipperman, andy sneap interviews, or anything else that is suggested as the source of information among the internet recording community. That is what I'm trying to say. There really shouldn't be a problem in putting te mic in front of the cabinet and getting the decent sound. But this just doesn't sound good. In any position. It always sounds thin and distant, different than any sm57 sound that i heard on a recorded tone. Even the worst sounds have that midrange I'm missing.

If your ears are correctly trained for good room sound, bad recorded tone ALWAYS comes from bad AE technique. Though it could be very well how you are dialing in your tones.

I dialed them at my own taste and, for that specific amp, tried every online setting, such as the ones posted on forums like this, to see if it was the problem.
Room is treated, the monitoring shouldn't be the problem in getting the sound to translate right, I have Genelecs, Adams and Rolands...

Don't blame the 57, it is a great mic, and it is the industry standard for micing instruments, if it doesn't sound good, then 99.9% of the time it is your fault. Also, don't blame the cab, you can get damn good results with any plywood cab with V30s in it. If it sounds bad, guess what, its probably your fault.

Yes, I'm thinking the same about the cabs, cause they do sound fine. The wood is fine and the speakers are fine. Should matter so much in final sound.

The thing is , for more than a decade I have recorded most of my guitars with various hardware-software amp simulators. And the kemper is probably my next purchase. But last few years, I tried to move to miking the amps, getting little tired of simulators...
I used amps live and rehearsals but I never bothered to record with amp because I fell in love with simulators long time ago...

I know about the industry standards, but I really think that something went wrong with my sm57...
If you read carefully, I mentioned there are great differences with speech samples from the internet and speech samples through my sm57.
Mine always has this scooped sound...

I never thought that something was wrong with that mic ( i didn't really record anything with it only used it for playing around the cabinet), but during last week, by eliminating other things, i realized that the problem could be the mic.
I'm not saying anything bad about sm57s, that would be stupid... only that maybe my mic is not functioning as it should be.


Well, to keep the things simple... I will go to a local store, take my portable recorder and try to record something with those sm57's and mine.
If they sound the same... I'll sell everything and buy kemper....

Or I'll stick to matching eq, because it can really shape this raw sound into something nice...

 

[Clark Kent]

The way I measured those frequency curves is pretty damn accurate if you compare the two DIFFERENT SM57s I put side by side. They are clearly almost identical while the SM58 without the cup is not the same mic at all.

The Shure SM57 is the industry standard for this task. It doesn't mean that you are a noob or simply suck at life if you prefer another mic like f.ex. an SM58 for the same task. Quite the contrary actually. It means that you trust your own ears more than what "is the right way to do things".

This being said I can't say which is the better mic for this task. If I use the SM58 I can leave it closer to the center of the speaker and get a balanced tone. This means I have faster attack in my guitar tones. Then again if I use the SM57 I have to put it more to the edge to get a balanced tone and this way the attack is slower.

So my conclusion:
SM58 for a punchy guitar sound
SM57 for a meaty guitar sound

And ofcourse using them both will give you the best of both worlds.

 

[drew_drummer]

SM57 for rhythms, 421 for leads. I've had some success using an Audix D6 for some low end oompf too - it's all about experimentation!!