Livenation (the promoter) most certainly does book shows that break even. Not necessarily to "help the scene" but because their willingness to buy that tour package raises the possibility of them getting a better package that will make more money.
Really? For Joe Schmoe Promotions, trying to build a relationship with a booking agent, I certainly understand that, but LiveNation? Are there really booking agents out there saying "hmm, I dunno, I've never heard of these 'LiveNation' guys; I'd like to try 'em out a few times before giving them a shot at a real money-maker"? Wouldn't a booking agent just shop the show to all the promoters he knows and sell it to the highest bidder who meets the requirements? Wouldn't a smart booking agent put the Sepultura show out for LiveNation to bid on regardless of what they did with the Vader show?
Incidentally, I got a $10 ticket for Behemoth being fire-saled by LN/HoB, so I guess this is a corporate policy for Polish metal bands.
It's still kind of a moot point on your end because even though we're talking about a 20,000 k difference, the point remains that it's still quite a lot of money being invested here on the part of the promoter, and quite a lot being grossed by the band
Yeah, I'm not really disputing your general point that some bands make money, I just think your estimates might be NYC-focused, and New York is terrible example to use as a proxy for the rest of the county.
And while I know you're just giving estimates, a difference between $50k and $30k is 40%; I think most people would have significant lifestyle changes if they had their salary reduced 40%.
There's really nowhere in Chicago larger than ~1100 people that gets booked by metal tours (unless they're major-label 80s bands). And I would imagine that Chicago can still pay higher than the mean on a 25-date tour, especially since there is a surplus of venues in Chicago that can help bid up prices.
And yes,
HoB Chicago is really 1300 max.: "House of Blues is a 1,300 person capacity, four story venue." But again, I've done count estimates during sold-out shows and have had difficulty figuring out where even 1000 people could be hiding.
If we use more realistic figures for that Hatebreed show of 1000 people, 20% buying a t-shirt, and half the beer previously estimated, we come to $31700 in income. LiveNation still has to pay for the building, all the workers, etc., so that might bring the break-even figure that they can pay the bands down to $25000. Figure Chicago can pay 20% above the mean, and that brings the average paid to the bands down to $20k/show. So on a 25-date tour, that's a difference of $1.25 million between my estimate and your high-end $70k guess. $30k here and $30k there and soon you're talking about real money!
For Nevermore/SymX in Chicago, tickets are $30, but it's at a much smaller venue (I think less than 500, but I keep forgetting to check the max occupancy sign), so again we're talking something like only $15000 available to pay bands in the 3rd largest city in the country.
Since ticket prices are almost never above $30, and crowds are almost never above 1000, that effectively gives a ceiling of $30000 available to pay metal bands, and I really doubt that promoters are eternally losing money on metal shows in order to have the chance to book other metal shows where they will also lose money.
Neil
