TENTH DREAMER DECEIVER
Halcyon Way Sufferer
- Jan 7, 2002
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Is this right, or delusional?
- Thread starter BenMech
- Start date
dcowboys311
Member
Would still rather listen to "Supremacy" on repeat for days than hear one post-1990 Queensryche song.
AngraRULES
Member
Jasonic
Doom On!
I really liked the first couple Hatebreed discs.
I just lost touch with their more recent efforts, as I had drifted further away from newer punk / hardcore over the past 10 years.
Good move on their part in getting involved with Ozzfest when they did. Otherwise they most likely would no longer exist, as it seemed at that time the true hXc scene were beginning to write them off.
The bad thing was Victory Records beginning to label EVERY band they signed as metal, even if they clearly were not.
I just lost touch with their more recent efforts, as I had drifted further away from newer punk / hardcore over the past 10 years.
Good move on their part in getting involved with Ozzfest when they did. Otherwise they most likely would no longer exist, as it seemed at that time the true hXc scene were beginning to write them off.
The bad thing was Victory Records beginning to label EVERY band they signed as metal, even if they clearly were not.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Yeah, I guess. I am not into CC at all, and have no clue how they draw.
I had no idea the two ever toured together.
I probably saw ads when they toured, but never paid that much attention.
dcowboys311
Member
Their past few discs are exactly what you'd expect from an Ozzfest band.
Gotta give them some credit, though. Still play small shows at least once a year where they play "Satisfaction is the Death of the Desire" front to back. Never truly left their roots.
skyrefuge
Member
For the record, I (nor AS) have no idea whether Hatebreed/CC sold out the House of Blues Chicago. That was just a hypothetical assumption because I wanted my calculations to represent maximum potential earnings for such bands. That tour played there at the end of 2009.
Also, I confirmed my suspicion that the HoB capacity in the music room *is* only 1000. From the Virtual Tour on HoB's website: "Chicago's premier music venue, we offer a unique setting in a room that has three viewing levels and accommodates up to 1,000 guests."
Neil
Jasonic
Doom On!
Yeah, I agree with that.
I remember after their first or second Ozzfest stint, they headlined a tour and brought out Agnostic Front and Murphys Law with them, which I thought was a cool move.
I think some of the "hate" for them (no pun intended) came from people having a hard time with Jasta being the host of Headbanger's Ball.
Also, once they did Ozzfest, the whole band stared wearing Celtic Frost, Slayer, and Kreator shirts, which didn't exactly come off as terribly genuine, given that most are fully aware of their hardcore roots, but whatever.
Jasonic
Doom On!
I wonder if they factored in all the chairs around the tables, the private viewing rooms on the sides, etc, etc....
I think we are all in agreement that capacity for a non-seated venue is nothing more than a number to meet safety / fire standards.
I would guess we have all been to HOB shows which were attended by more than 1,000 people.
skyrefuge
Member
I'm guessing HoB is aware of their own facilities, yes.
What do you mean "nothing more than"? Are you saying that you believe a huge corporate entity like LiveNation knowingly violates safety / fire codes? Especially in a post-Great White world?!
What is your basis for that belief?
Neil
TENTH DREAMER DECEIVER
Halcyon Way Sufferer
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DuchessOfDork
Member
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Oh... so that explains this...
...I sincerely hope this will include a song about killing zombies.
Metalmilitia2000
UM's Resident Asshole
Back to the original topic, I can confirm that this is true, I just saw the paperwork confirming it for several upcoming shows here in MN. While I think its bullshit, it is happening.
skyrefuge
Member
So what are the details? Is it actually a tax that the Internal Revenue Service is collecting? Our guys-in-the-know in this thread only speculated about visa issues/costs, which I would think doesn't have anything to do with the IRS. So presumably this is something new that's independent of the visa process?
Neil
Jasonic
Doom On!
What I am saying is that at HOB, or many other venues, I have attended shows that were definitely oversold and would definitely have exceeded the reasonable fire code capacity level. No, I don't have number of tickets scanned or headcount totals to confirm, just basing over my own experiences. Metro would probably be the biggest culprit of this.
Sure, maybe they only "sell" the number of tickets which matches the fire code capacity or whatever, but when you factor in band members, workers, guest lists, contest winners, etc, etc, I think the capacity for a sold out show exceeds legal limits.
This is my personal opinion based on my attending shows all over the Chicago land area for about 25 years now. Don't waste my time or yours crying over factual data that NO ONE has for any given show. Ticket sales don't matter or legal capacity. Unless you physically counted every human in the building, your "data" is not 100% accurate, but an estimate.
Not trying to argue, but the whole "You don't have the facts jack" retort gets old, esp when those "facts" aren't 100% accurate anyhow.
Metalmilitia2000
UM's Resident Asshole
Yea, it's the IRS collecting a tax on NRA(s), Nonresident Aliens, to the tune of 30% for each performance. The promoter is responsible for WITHHOLDING that amount from the final payout to deposit into an IRS account on behalf of the band or their representative. If the band wishes to get it back, they have to file for social security numbers, and then file a form showing their expenses/revenue for the tour. My understanding from a lawyer that I know was that most of these tours have more expenses than revenue (as merch sales are not counted in this 30%) so the bands would have to jump through some hoops, but at the end of the day, MOST of them should probably be able to get the money back. The IRS is literally subpoenaing the contracts from these clubs/venues in order to find out the amount that is owed to them, and if it is not payed, the promoter or venue then becomes responsible for that expenditure personally, PLUS a fine. They have even sent them late, as the owner of a local venue here got the paperwork a couple of months AFTER a recent tour, where he couldn't have possibly taken the 30% in order to pay them, so, the owner of the venue, being the lawyer I was talking about, effectively told the IRS to go fuck themselves on that show. He said he had the legal standpoint to do so, but on the ones that he gets in time, he HAS to execute them, as he has no choice. It's fucking bullshit if you ask me.
Harvester
The Promoter
There are multiple circumstances that decide if the withholding is necessary: independant contractor (this is HUGE!) vs. employee status, length of stay in the U.S., gross income threshold, fixed U.S. base with stable income, and the list goes on and on.
This is actually a situation where the goverment actually gets it right and does not penalize the smaller band or one-off appearance pending country of origin's U.S. tax treaty status. If only they would differentiate the visa process as well....
http://www.artistsfromabroad.org/taxes/artists_entertainers_exemption.html
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p901.pdf
This is actually a situation where the goverment actually gets it right and does not penalize the smaller band or one-off appearance pending country of origin's U.S. tax treaty status. If only they would differentiate the visa process as well....
http://www.artistsfromabroad.org/taxes/artists_entertainers_exemption.html
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p901.pdf
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