ITB versus ZED-R16 (mp3s)

[burst]

Cheers, Mick! Thanks for long and detailed answer. You see, that's the main problem for me, from all the people that are talking about that board, no one is seems to be using it as sole interface, everybody is using at least 1-2 A/D and D/A units and a wordclock. So, I worry if this spend will lead to another unexpected spends. Well, I guess I'll have to order it and try it myself.

 

[Trevoire520]

When it comes to bouncing the mix I have been taking the stereo mix plus the returns of all 16 channels in case a recall is needed.

Thats pretty clever man, I would have never thought to do that. Definitely makes recalls easier if you've got the already eq'd tracks in the DAW.

Only thing I wish it had is a couple of stereo channels with the full parametric eq for guitar subs etc. Can't have it all for only £1500 I guess though!

Not quite sure on whether I'd prefer to incorporate this through the ADAT inputs of my Profire, which would leave me with no midi control (does this even work on Pro Tools?) or stereo master track but I'd have a couple of extra headphone outputs.
Or use the Zed as the master and run the Profire into the ADAT inputs on the Zed.

 

[arv_foh]

The Zed pre shouldn't stand a chance against the API but it holds up well.
I certainly can't hear the API as 700 quid better than it.
Trev, you will thank me when you do your first mix on the Zed if you get one
I will stem out the ITB mix when I get a chance. That will probably be the end of next week.
I have sessions from tomorrow until Sunday and I am back teaching on Monday.

Awesome, looking forward to listening to it. Thanks!

 

[if6was9]

Interesting pre comparison. I thought the API did sound a little tighter and smoother. The Zed was a small bit more scratchy sounding but it wasn't bad at all.

I'm gonna be using the pre's and EQ from an A&H gl2200 for tracking drums to fill out the channels on my Fireface 800 till I start getting my own single channel pres. I must do a comparison between them, the stock pres and the pre's in my Hill Audio console on my next reamping session.

Those ZED's look like really well thought out pieces of gear. Tons of useful functionality for a good price. 16 channels of pres, eq and AD and DA with adat makes them very useful for alot of different studios. Plus the fact they'd make an alright live desk too is cool

 

[mickrich]

Last minute cancellation today so I did the ITB and Zed sums.
The Zed summed is kit bus, bass, gtr bus, vox bus and fx to separate stereo channel pairs with faders at zero and no eq.
I would normally use far more outputs and separate the kit but there were fx on the drum bus in the original mix.
I normalized both files to 0dbfs with no other processing.
ITB
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/CMD ITB.mp3
Zed sum
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/CMD ZED SUM.mp3

 

[mickrich]

Not quite sure on whether I'd prefer to incorporate this through the ADAT inputs of my Profire, which would leave me with no midi control (does this even work on Pro Tools?) or stereo master track but I'd have a couple of extra headphone outputs.
Or use the Zed as the master and run the Profire into the ADAT inputs on the Zed.

You could connect the firewire of the zed and not use the driver or there is a midi out socket on the zed that you could connect to a midi in port if you have one.
I have the zed set up with logic and it works great. Transport, 16 midi faders, and the midi 1-4 faders and pots above controlling waves ssl channel.
There is a guide on the A&H site to set up the midi on the zed using a midi translator.
http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?CatId=ZEDSeries&ProductId=ZEDR16

 

[Trevoire520]

Mick, sorry to keep bugging you about this thing man. I was wondering how you go about incorporating your delays and reverbs on mixdown using this? 16 channels obviously isn't many if you have for example 3 stereo verbs/delays going, leaving only 10 channels for other tracks.

Only way that comes to mind is to use some of the outputs from my profire for fx and plug them into the stereo channels to use them as fx returns?

 

[voidar]

Just a thought.

You say that on mixdown you record the stems with the mix. In DAW, could you in practice flip the phase on say the vox stem, or any other instrument, and null this out in the 2 track mix? (from the 16 + 2 track returns)

 

[Trevoire520]

Assuming you're not using any compression/limiting on the 2 bus then yeah that would work. You'd need to get the fader position right though as the stem will have been recorded pre-fade.

 

[mickrich]

Hey Trev.
Been busy
I send all fx to the same bus in logic or PT and send the bus via spdif to my apogee mini dac that is wired to stereo input 1 on the Zed. The latency of the apogee is very (very,very) slightly different to the Zed's own converters but it works fine for fx returns.
You could also just bus all fx to 15-16 in on the Zed if you are not using extra converters.
In your case I would use your pro fire connected to the adat on the Zed and use it's outputs for fx returns on st 1 and click on st 2 since these both have aux sends then use st 3 and st 4 for extra inputs from DAW if needed. I use a behringer ada8000 for click and extra inputs.

 

[mickrich]

Just a thought.

You say that on mixdown you record the stems with the mix. In DAW, could you in practice flip the phase on say the vox stem, or any other instrument, and null this out in the 2 track mix? (from the 16 + 2 track returns)

Should work fine.
I used to do it all the time on tape. Record the mix back to 2 tracks.
I haven't done any recalls since I got the Zed. Amazingly mixes are working out perfect first time.
Having the individual tracks recorded back should make recalls easy though.

 

[voidar]

You'd need to get the fader position right though as the stem will have been recorded pre-fade.

Sure. I was thinking it could come in handy if you got some "more kick/more vocals"-feedback, you could either dial in more or less.

Anyway, I've ordered mine. Faders and knobs are so much more fun. Hope the B-stock from Thomanns ain't that "B".

 

[Trevoire520]

How much are the B's at Thomann coming in at? Do they have any left?

Hey Trev.
Been busy
I send all fx to the same bus in logic or PT and send the bus via spdif to my apogee mini dac that is wired to stereo input 1 on the Zed. The latency of the apogee is very (very,very) slightly different to the Zed's own converters but it works fine for fx returns.
You could also just bus all fx to 15-16 in on the Zed if you are not using extra converters.
In your case I would use your pro fire connected to the adat on the Zed and use it's outputs for fx returns on st 1 and click on st 2 since these both have aux sends then use st 3 and st 4 for extra inputs from DAW if needed. I use a behringer ada8000 for click and extra inputs.

Hey dude, no worries at all, thanks for the reply!

 

[voidar]

Seems like they had this one for about €1100.

If it works fine etc. I'll probably order the flightcase, and some replacement wood-sidepanels from http://www.mixingtable.com/.

 

[Trevoire520]

Damn, seems there was only one. Oh well.

 

[mickrich]

Day off today so had a go at Ola's track.
Super tight playing!
Guitars are ts808>mesa triple recto>recto cab>57>API
Bass is re-amp to Harke Bass Attack preamp>UA LA610
Mixed on A&H Zed-R16

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/Ola Zed Mix.mp3

 

[burst]

Ordered mine! $1799 from American Musical Supply. Thank you Mick for clearing a lot of things about this board. I was looking at it for a while now, but was kinda unsure because I don't really like their live consoles except iLive, so a review and hands-on experience from fellow sneapster was really helpful. Cheers, man

 

[mickrich]

Great stuff guys.
Make sure you post how you get on with the Zed when you get them.

Here is another Zed mix from this thread
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...264-super-heavy-deathcore-5150-engl-look.html

Mesa Triple Recto re-amp. Bass through Harke Bass Attack DI

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/premprod mix.mp3

 

[aortizjr]

Last minute cancellation today so I did the ITB and Zed sums.
The Zed summed is kit bus, bass, gtr bus, vox bus and fx to separate stereo channel pairs with faders at zero and no eq.
I would normally use far more outputs and separate the kit but there were fx on the drum bus in the original mix.
I normalized both files to 0dbfs with no other processing.
ITB
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/CMD ITB.mp3
Zed sum
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/CMD ZED SUM.mp3

Took me a while to be in an environment to really listen to these. The first set were very different, but very different mixes.

These ones are lot more subtle. Both are good but there is definitely a bit of softness added from the ZED and gives the mix more depth. It is very subtle, but there. I did some blind tests to be sure. It was easier to tell on different parts of the song than others.

I have been looking at one of these for my studio. It sounds great!

 

[MatrixClaw]

I'm really debating upgrading to one of these from my Saffire Pro 40 as my main interface (with no external conversion). Does anyone use one of these as the heart of their rig? The clips are quite intriguing to me, as I was debating just upgrading to some nicer extrenal pres (or to something like a Fireface UFX or maybe the Steinberg MR816), but if the ZED can get a sound that comparable to the API preamps, for only a little more, plus 14 more preamps, EQs and DAW control, I'm all for it!

The only thing that I'm kind of concerned with is how it will work as a DAW controller without motorized faders. I've only used boards with motorized faders, and I've heard mixed opinions on ones without them. I would probably need control of plugins, more than volume faders, though. I can always add a Mackie Control if I need it, but if the ZED can do what I want decently, then all the better!