John Arch appreciation thread

The Apparition

The Apparition

Porpoise McSalamander
Dec 22, 2004
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I don't care if i'm the only person on this whole forum besides the rest of TM who thinks John Arch is one of the greatest if not the greatest singer who has ever lived. He sang on the first 3 Fates Warning albums:
Night On Brocken
The Spectre Within
Awaken The Guardian

There has never been a singer/band/musician/entertainer who has moved me on the level that Arch does. I don't think there has been a singer in metal or rock who is as artistic, inspired and has so much to say. If anyone listens to the track "Guardian" from Awaken the Guardian and reads the lyrics and isn't moved by the song, they aren't alive.

The greatest musician who has ever lived. :kickass:
 
This whole discussion has prompted me to dig up the earlier Fates Warning albums and give them another spin. "Perfect Symmetry" in particular has a very similar sound to Friar Rush's debut... :headbang:


Would you consider "Caught Somewhere In Time" to be a title track for "Somewhere In Time" or does it fail the Shrifftegrity test?
 
FerretallicA said:
This whole discussion has prompted me to dig up the earlier Fates Warning albums and give them another spin. "Perfect Symmetry" in particular has a very similar sound to Friar Rush's debut... :headbang:


Would you consider "Caught Somewhere In Time" to be a title track for "Somewhere In Time" or does it fail the Shrifftegrity test?
Click to expand...
This discussion inspired you to dig up a Alder era Fates Warning album? That my friend, is not early Fates. I sincerely doubt you have ever heard an Arch era Fates Warning album.
 
The Apparition said:
This discussion inspired you to dig up a Alder era Fates Warning album? That my friend, is not early Fates. I sincerely doubt you have ever heard an Arch era Fates Warning album.
Click to expand...

But you can definitely agree that both singers draw their inspiration from Friar Rush? Not that Fates Warning are a bad band by any means - they're great - I just think they stuck too closely to the existing mould and didn't ever develop their own character, especially in vocals.
 
FerretallicA said:
But you can definitely agree that both singers draw their inspiration from Friar Rush? Not that Fates Warning are a bad band by any means - they're great - I just think they stuck too closely to the existing mould and didn't ever develop their own character, especially in vocals.
Click to expand...
Um...that statement is completely untrue. Fates Warning basically invented Progressive Metal with The Spectre Within in 1985 and Awaken the Guardian in 1986. No band sounded like them before them and Queensryche were really the only other band around the time playing and sort of progressive metal.

They were pioneers and in fact the most unique and original sounding part of the band was John Archs vocals and lyrics, not to say the music wasn't original.

Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater is a huge fan of Awaken the Guardian. He writes liner notes for the remaster of the album and basically says exactly what i said. Fates invented prog metal and were a huge influence on early Dream Theater.

Fates began to copy other bands after John Arch left in 1986 and Ray Alder joined. Parallels was definitely influenced by Queensryche and most of Fates Warnings 90's stuff was obviously influenced by Dream Theater.

Listen to Awaken the Guardian and find me another metal band that was playing music like that in 1986.
 
The Apparition said:
Um...that statement is completely untrue.
Click to expand...

You seem to have your history mixed up. Listen to Friar Rush's "Hold On" or "Loki" and you'll clearly see where John Arch drew most of his inspiration from as a vocalist. It was imitation, not innovation. It wasn't until he joined Spock's Beard that he started developing his own distinct vocal style. His other failing was trying too hard to be the star of the show. Some people can get away with both vocal and bass duties - like Lemmy in Motorhead or Steve Harris in Iron Maiden - but John Arch needed to focus on just doing one thing at a time and he would've been legendary.
 
FerretallicA said:
You seem to have your history mixed up. Listen to Friar Rush's "Hold On" or "Loki" and you'll clearly see where John Arch drew most of his inspiration from as a vocalist. It was imitation, not innovation. It wasn't until he joined Spock's Beard that he started developing his own distinct vocal style. His other failing was trying too hard to be the star of the show. Some people can get away with both vocal and bass duties - like Lemmy in Motorhead or Steve Harris in Iron Maiden - but John Arch needed to focus on just doing one thing at a time and he would've been legendary.
Click to expand...
:lol: You're a strange man.
 
I was drawn here by the "JOHN ARCH" thread lol . So whats the deal with Arch, he have anything going on ? I like both the sounds of Fates Warning and prefer the maturity of the later band but one has to be in the mood for the more dreary sound and subjects. Perfect Symmetry is when I got on board, the music fit where my head was at at the time. Either way both vocalists are kind of unique to my ears. Alder was great after No Exit when he got to be himself and stop trying to be Arch (my own conclusion). My former song writting comrade/vocalist and bass player was an Arch #1 guy, my pick is and always will be Tate in his younger years but Im always up to hear some new Arch . What about the Twist of Fate EP... worth the listen and still available ?
 
razoredge said:
I was drawn here by the "JOHN ARCH" thread lol . So whats the deal with Arch, he have anything going on ? I like both the sounds of Fates Warning and prefer the maturity of the later band but one has to be in the mood for the more dreary sound and subjects. Perfect Symmetry is when I got on board, the music fit where my head was at at the time. Either way both vocalists are kind of unique to my ears. Alder was great after No Exit when he got to be himself and stop trying to be Arch (my own conclusion). My former song writting comrade/vocalist and bass player was an Arch #1 guy, my pick is and always will be Tate in his younger years but Im always up to hear some new Arch . What about the Twist of Fate EP... worth the listen and still available ?
Click to expand...
I do agree that Alder really only hit his stride after he stopped trying to be like Arch, but i think that happened more on Parallels then Perfect Symmetry. Alder is a totally different singer than Arch and his voice isn't suited to tricky higher range vocal theatrics. He sounds great in his mid range and upper mid range with the occasional high note thrown in for effect.

My opinion is that Fates hit their peak on Awaken the Guardian and haven't come anywhere close since. Sure they improved as musicians but they totally lost that mystical and otherwordly vibe once Arch left/got fired. I listen to No Exit and i can totally imagine the crazy and amazing vocals Arch would have created.

Arch was an incredibly unique singer/songwriter and amazing lyricist.
Awaken the Guardian has such a timeless quality and is one of the few albums that i can listen to every day, never get sick of and always hear something new that i didn't notice before.

Geoff Tate would probably come 3rd for me in my list of all time favourite singers, just after Arch and Midnight from Crimson Glory, who i like for a lot of the same reasons as i like Arch.

You have to hear the Twist of Fate EP! It's absolutely brilliant. I rate it just after ATG and ahead of The Spectre Within. It's more modern style progressive metal but it's still incredibly unique and Arch hasn't lost one single note.

I'm pretty sure he's retired from music and we won't hear from him again. There was talks of an album but i don't think this will happen. Arch is too busy making cabinets now.
 
I'm opposite, Perfect Symmetry and on are still in seasonal rotation but No Exit and earlier are more like annual. I only bought FWX recently and the jurys still out on that one, it didnt hit me like Disconnected which may be my favorite if I had to have one.

I kind of always thought Dominici and the guy from Watchtower sang more in the style of Arch where the later generation of progressive vocalists were more melodic. I think Alder sang pretty darn high, no screaming but thats was a pretty high range he sang in, not easy to duplicate I imagine. I've never heard Crimson Glory.

Russell Allen has been my later voice of choice due to Geoff being past his prime. Always liked Zach Stevens too as well as The Madman himself. Currently digging Damian Wilson and McDermott, Im really late to the band Threshold but enjoying it.

So tell me about the band this site is for........ [chuckles] I've never heard them
 
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