Kick & Bass relationship

[RichMinerva]

im having a majorly hard time with these recently

im boosting 50hz on my kick and cutting about 80 for bass to sit in

is this usually the other way around?

would the kick sit at 80 and the bass go lower?

so damn confused by it these days haha

and is there anything you guys would do different to go around it with compression or anything?

 

[Ermz]

This is one of the hardest things to get right from project to project, and there isn't a clear-cut answer.

Only thing I can say is that boosting 50hz on a metal kick seems a bit detrimental. That's closer to where dance/pop/rnb kicks tend to sit. Most bass drums for metal based stuff tend to find a nice home around 70hz, possibly as low as 60, depending what kind of mix you're going for. The bass guitar prominence is normally comfortable at 100 to 120hz. Depends once again - at times I've given the bass guitar a fair degree of energy at 50hz, if I'm going for one of 'those' mixes (y'know, the love it or hate it kind that gets me hard).

It's all rinse and repeat type stuff. The more you do it, the better feel you'll get for it. Try to analyze kick samples taken from professional releases you like, and emulate how the kick sits. From there you will be automatically guided on how the bass needs to fit in. It's just one big game of Tetris. Chance gives you the pieces, and you have to make them fit as well as you can in the time that you have.

 

[RichMinerva]

This is one of the hardest things to get right from project to project, and there isn't a clear-cut answer.

Only thing I can say is that boosting 50hz on a metal kick seems a bit detrimental. That's closer to where dance/pop/rnb kicks tend to sit. Most bass drums for metal based stuff tend to find a nice home around 70hz, possibly as low as 60, depending what kind of mix you're going for. The bass guitar prominence is normally comfortable at 100 to 120hz. Depends once again - at times I've given the bass guitar a fair degree of energy at 50hz, if I'm going for one of 'those' mixes (y'know, the love it or hate it kind that gets me hard).

It's all rinse and repeat type stuff. The more you do it, the better feel you'll get for it. Try to analyze kick samples taken from professional releases you like, and emulate how the kick sits. From there you will be automatically guided on how the bass needs to fit in. It's just one big game of Tetris. Chance gives you the pieces, and you have to make them fit as well as you can in the time that you have.

one of the best most helpful replies i've ever had.

cheers Ermz

EDIT :NOT SARCASM!

 

[Tamarocker88]

Try to analyze kick samples taken from professional releases you like, and emulate how the kick sits.

Is there a plugin out there that lets you view and analyze the frequencies of a track? That way you can see what frequencies are sticking out (good or bad) ?

 

[RaDiKaL]

Is there a plugin out there that lets you view and analyze the frequencies of a track? That way you can see what frequencies are sticking out (good or bad) ?

http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

 

[RandomOne]

sidechain compression and they both will be happy.

 

[tempe]

sidechain compression and they both will be happy.

This works great for rock and slower paced stuff. But with stuff that involves double kick drum, it starts getting really messy.

Even for rock stuff I feel I've been better of carving a small dip with EQ in the bass track where I want the kick to sit.

 

[RandomOne]

This works great for rock and slower paced stuff. But with stuff that involves double kick drum, it starts getting really messy.

Even for rock stuff I feel I've been better of carving a small dip with EQ in the bass track where I want the kick to sit.

I haven't really tried it on a mix involving double kick but it works good for me.

 

[ronnan]

Am i wrong i thinking the tunning of the bass would effect this??

 

[tempe]

Am i wrong i thinking the tunning of the bass would effect this??

It would indeed! Basically it really helps to know the fundamental frequency of whatever the lowest note of your bass is. So if your drop tuning its going to get lower obviously. Get yourself a Carnegie chart or similar, they're great for checking stuff like this. Once you know this it can at least give you a ballpark idea of where you want things to sit.

Problem is though the fundamental of a low E on bass is around 41Hz I think. This is seriously low and is getting down to RnB bass territory. So if your recording a band that tunes a lot lower (chances are on this forum we are), you're better off in my experience having the kick sit in between whatever the fundamental of the bass is and its 2nd harmonic.

For example, if your playing in E, the fundamental frequency is 41Hz (I think), and its second harmonic is 82Hz, this is where the bass is going to be mostly audible. If you stick the kick at around 60 - 70hz, with a small tight dip in the bass. It'll get you in the ball park.

This is by no means a cut and dry solution, but something I've found myself doing as a starting point.

I also found that I've gotten faster at finding annoying resonant frequencies in the low-mids of instruments by working out that they are usually in an octave relationship of the first harmonic.

Funny how these things sometimes work.

 

[Tamarocker88]

http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

Thank you very much!