Isolating kick drum

[fade_2_black]

Had a search around but couldnt find anything on this topic, forgive me if I missed it..
Im recording a band over the next month or so that has a VERY hard hitting drummer. I plan on replacing the kicks and this usually isnt a problem at all, however in the past when I have recorded this drummer, I have had problems with spill between mics - mainly kick getting into a lot of other mics.. The kick sound from a distant mic is usually a muddy, dead thud (ie, not very nice). Any tips on somehow isolating the kick to reduce bleed into other mics? Ive seen a lot of people basically drape a heavy blanket over the kick, would this help me at all, or is this simply to achieve a better kick sound ?

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Realistically you want to get all the drums to be picked up by your overheads, because they help add stereo imaging to the overall drums, your bigger concern is getting the bass drum out of the snare, and toms. You will do this by putting a gate on your mics and setting the threshold until the other drums don't bleed into the mic when played and only the preferred sound source comes through.

little mic bleed is going to happen, that's okay, having uncontrollable amounts is when you have to do something, like keeping the snare mic at 180 to the hihat and the floor tom away from the ride etc.

 

[Scissors61]

If you're 100% replacing the kick drum, fill it full of cushions/duvets and stuff so that it doesnt make much noise, then just whack a trigger on there...

 

[Metaltastic]

Realistically you want to get all the drums to be picked up by your overheads, because they help add stereo imaging to the overall drums, your bigger concern is getting the bass drum out of the snare, and toms. You will do this by putting a gate on your mics and setting the threshold until the other drums don't bleed into the mic when played and only the preferred sound source comes through.

little mic bleed is going to happen, that's okay, having uncontrollable amounts is when you have to do something, like keeping the snare mic at 180 to the hihat and the floor tom away from the ride etc.

Hmm, I disagree about wanting the kick in the OH's, because if they drummer isn't spot on with his double bass (highly likely IME, sadly), you wanna make sure you can quantize it without getting a flamming effect from the original perf. in the OH's. Hence draping a thick blanket over the kick!

 

[fade_2_black]

Yeah, obviously I gate / strip silence tom tracks, etc. Its more the OHs that are a problem for me. And im not fussed at all about stereo imaging of my kick drum haha. Even when it is audible in the OHs, its perfectly centred, so it wont make any difference having it out altogether..

The pillow idea is a good though - I think ill just deaden the hell out of it and hope to bring it down a bit..

Any other ideas?

 

[Metaltastic]

Any other ideas?

Hence draping a thick blanket over the kick!

 

[Unavailable]

Another thing you can do is make sure to use felt beaters, which will lessen the click/attack sound that gets into the OHs. That is, unless the beater type is part of the drummer's playing style.

 

[Ermz]

Get some triggers on his kicks on and deaden both skins to hell so they barely produce a sound. The trigger should give you the hit impulse for easy triggering and hopefully you'll have attenuated the tone enough to get away with.

 

[if6was9]

you could just have him hit a rubber pad mounted sideways like and electric kit instead and trigger off that, illeminates it pretty much entirely

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Hmm, I disagree about wanting the kick in the OH's, because if they drummer isn't spot on with his double bass (highly likely IME, sadly), you wanna make sure you can quantize it without getting a flamming effect from the original perf. in the OH's. Hence draping a thick blanket over the kick!

that is if you have a crappy drummer, which like you said is very likely. i in that situation would throw a blanket over the bass drum and put a gate on the OH.

i just don't like the sound of just a bass mic on the kick, its too round and lacks snap, when you start getting the bass drum in the kick, you hear the snap and ambiance as if you were listening to the drums in person, which to me sounds more realistic and natural.

that sound though is what you have to sacrifice when you record a shitty drummer, that's why i program FTW

 

[Metaltastic]

Well yeah, I should specify that I ONLY ever sample-replace the kick, so all the more reason I want it out of the OH's!

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Well yeah, I should specify that I ONLY ever sample-replace the kick, so all the more reason I want it out of the OH's!

that would make sense if you had really good samples to replace them with, then you can have a total different sound to your liking, get as much sampled OH and Room in the kick as you want or whatever. I am a fan of the sound of a blended Kick, OH and Room for the bass, and i will get it any way possible, including triggering or actually micing up the kit. Whatever works

if that be the case i would use a rubber trigger so that you have no bass drum sound at all.

 

[Metaltastic]

that would make sense if you had really good samples to replace them with

I do, and they're all from this forum!

 

[KeithTidd]

stick a blanket over the kick.

 

[fade_2_black]

Yeah ok sweet guys cheers. Haha, and Metaltastic, I started replying before you had finished so I didnt get to read your first post before posting again

 

[egan.]

stick a blanket over the kick.

Yeah a blanket and or tunnel. If you have no outside kick mic you can just let blankets drape over the front head as well. I personally would never purposefully make a kick sound bad even if I intended to replace it but that's just me.

 

[AdamWathan]

Don't forget to highpass the shit out of your overheads, should get any distant annoying thud from the kick drum out of there pretty quick.

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

another way to go is to mix the kicks insanely loud in his monitoring, hence he'll ease off a bit on the kicks

 

[TheWinterSnow]

another way to go is to mix the kicks insanely loud in his monitoring, hence he'll ease off a bit on the kicks

lol an old Oz trick with the hi hats right there.

 

[fade_2_black]

another way to go is to mix the kicks insanely loud in his monitoring, hence he'll ease off a bit on the kicks

Ah yep, use that a lot for getting feel with vox.
Not sure how well that would work with this drummer though as his speed is maintained through his pounding feet, when he backs off he loses all coordination !