A couple of drum recording questions

[jeid]

Hello, Something I've been thinking about recently is multiple kick micing and processing.

I record rock stuff mostly. I see bands recording and there's usually at least two mics on the kick. I've got a session coming up in a few weeks and I'm planning on putting a few mics on the kick to give me something different to work with. I've got access to a Beta 91, an Audix D6, an AKG D112 and I was also thinking I could use my AT4033. I thought I'd maybe use the D6 in the hole, with the AT4033 more on the resonant head.

Does anyone here put a condenser outside the kick to blend with a mic in the kick/a sample at all? How do you blend it in/process it? In my head, I think the LDC would be processed differently to the mic in the hole and then bussed down/further processed. Any advice/tips/a nudge in the right direction would be great.

My other question is in regards to room mics. Generally I just record with one room mic, but I've got access to a couple of AKG 214's for this session, I've been scouring around for info on here and on other boards about placing these. I was thinking about pointing them in the corners of the room we're going to use for tracking the drums for this EP along with another mic out in front of the kit. What do you find is the best room mic method/technique? Or is it totally room dependent?

Sorry for the long drawn out question and I'm sorry if this has been gone over before, I have looked over the past week and come up with very vague info.

Cheers very much for any information/help

 

[Trevoire520]

Hey dude,
For your kick mic'ing I'd personally go for the 91 inside and D6 (or maybe the D112) in the soundhole.
The 91 will get you loads of click and attack and the soundhole mic will get you some nice thump and resonance.
You'll want to gate the 91 really hard as being a half omni condenser it will get alot of spill from the snare etc. The outside you can get away with more relaxed settings though and longer release will help the subs/resonance breathe a bit.

Normally when mixing stuff with 2 kick mic's I'll high and low pass them at the same point with a really steep filter (eg. 200hz HPF on the inside mic and 200hx LPF on the outside mic) as this means you don't have to worry about phase issues between the 2 mic's. Bus them together and eq and compress from there and you should be sounding pretty good.

As for room mic's, lately I've personally been going for a pair of spaced omni's (cardioids will do though if you don't have any) as high and wide as the room/mic stands will allow, normally up in the very highest corner of the room. This gives you a nice wide image that normally picks up a nice balance of the whole kit (depending on the drummer and room) It's really worth spending time on these mic's as even if you're triggering your shells these can add some great excitement and real-ness to your sound if the kit/drummer/room is decent. Sometimes you can actually get some massive deep sounding low end from these mics, though that would be more suited for slower rock stuff than metal tbh.
I'll also normally throw in a mono room just a few feet in front of the kit that gets the typical smashy 1176 treatment come mix time.

 

[Firaxis]

I'd go with trevoire, 91 in the drum and one in the hole, I really love the D6, I think it does a lot of the shaping you'd do with an EQ already.

Some guys love to put an overhead over the head of the drummer and really crush it with a compressor too, gives some nice crack from the snare.

 

[~BURNY~]

D6 half way inside an d112 on the reso head is what I've been doing recently. I'm mostly recording indie rock bands too so I don't need the kick to sound super clicky or scooped.

 

[jeid]

Yeah, I'm not looking for a super clicky type sound, I want a nice rounded kick sound with fatness rather than click. I'll likely make up a sample of the drummers kick and use it.

@Travis: Are you pointing your room mics at the kit? Or at the corners? I watched a Royer video the other night and the guy said he pointed them away and got great results. On listening, I was impressed. The reflections sounded phat yo!

@Burny: Have you got any examples of that? Be keen to hear.

My other option (after a bit of DIY) is to make a homemade Subkick to put on the reso head.

Nobody micing outside of the kick with an LDC?

 

[~BURNY~]

Come to think of it, I think it might have been the other way around. Not sure anymore...
Anyway...
You can hear the famous world wide hated basket ball sound of the d112.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2973685/kicks.rar

 

[Trevoire520]

I normally point the mic's facing the kit but I have done stuff before having the mic facing into the corner aswell, never tried it on stereo setups though.

 

[Heabow]

As for room mics, I use anything I can get on the moment. But I always try to put at least two mics in front of the kit and two other behind the drummer.

 

[AEL89]

Hey dude,
For your kick mic'ing I'd personally go for the 91 inside and D6 (or maybe the D112) in the soundhole.
The 91 will get you loads of click and attack and the soundhole mic will get you some nice thump and resonance.
You'll want to gate the 91 really hard as being a half omni condenser it will get alot of spill from the snare etc. The outside you can get away with more relaxed settings though and longer release will help the subs/resonance breathe a bit.

D6 in the hole always sounds good - this will cover the main part of your sound. I would try a 91 too but I have no problem with bleed if it sounds good - especially as kick and snare are panned the same - it might even add something cool to the snare

As for room mic's, lately I've personally been going for a pair of spaced omni's (cardioids will do though if you don't have any) as high and wide as the room/mic stands will allow, normally up in the very highest corner of the room. This gives you a nice wide image that normally picks up a nice balance of the whole kit

This is can be the worst place to put your stereo room mics (unless it does happen to sound good :Spin: ) because you'll get washed out with cymbals whilst getting boominess from the corners - mainly in poorly treated or just bad sounding rooms. Walk around the room and place a mic where it sounds good. Measure the distance to the snare and then place the other mic accordingly. Mono mic - choose your darkest mic and place it in the darkest sounding place you can find. If you've got any filters on the way in then roll off some top. You can get more aggressive and creative with compression this way. If you're not looking to smash your mono mic then choose a mic that offers a realistic impression of the drumkit, place it at head height a few metres away from the kit and point it at the snare drum.

 

[if6was9]

I love using 2/3 mics on the kick. D6 just inside the hole and I used to use a beta 52 outside before it got stolen. I built a sub kick but to be honest it is overkill on most things come mix time. You just don't need that much low end! I haven't used it in a few sessions. Easy to build though, took about an minute to make.

My problem with using an LDC outside the kick is the cymbal bleed. I find building a fort around the kick helps but you get a muffled, dead quality too.

I like to use a M/S setup for room mics. A cheap ribbon ( I've 2 tbone ribbon mics, rb100 and rm700 I think) for the S and an LDC for the M. Set it up roughly around the same height as the snare and a few feet away from the kick. If you can use panels to block off the cymbals. I love the sound of room mics on the drums but the cymbal bleed is what restricts how much I can use them. The beauty of using a M/S setup is you can vary the amount of width in your mix.

 

[jeid]

Cheers for all the info guys. I was planning on building a fort around the kick mic(s) anyway, but it's good to hear that it works well.

I'm going to try a few things out when we get to tracking, see what works and what doesn't. A few combinations. We're not really pushed for time at all.

 

[if6was9]

I'm going to try a few things out when we get to tracking, see what works and what doesn't. A few combinations. We're not really pushed for time at all.

Best way of doing it really. Every situation is different and it's only through trying a few different things that you get an ear for what works and what doesn't.

One interesting thing that I've heard and used to good effect is to walk around with the floor tom in your hand listening for how it sounds in different parts of the room. It's got lots of low end but also attack so it's cool for finding where's good in a room to put the kit.