King's X: XV - album of the year?

Listening to Faith Hope Love right now. I got it a long time ago and never really liked it. After reading all this, I figured I might give it another listen (since I've probably listened to it about 3 times total, and none recently).
 
I sometimes read into King's X lyrics now what I experienced at their concert then. So even a song like "Pray" off their new CD takes on a more sinister tone than it should.

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I don't like bands who politicize or make angry speeches from the stage. King's X didn't do that when they were Christians. So I don't want them to do it when they're not. If Doug can just play -- and, man, that guy can play and sing! -- and not try to convert the audience to his dark side, then I'll be a fan once again. They're playing in Detroit this summer. I'll attend and see what they're like.

I'll take issue over these two points. Pray is probably one of the stongest songs Doug has written in recent years. There nothing sinister about the tone at all. Doug isn't telling you to believe in something specific. He's saying that if something is working for you, then be sure to include him in your thoughts. How is that sinister?

An secondly, Doug has been outspoken for more than 10 years. Go back and listen to the Woodstock '94 version of "Over My Head." What was so dark about him expressing his thoughts of his upbringing and encouraging the audience to put it all in perspective. Deeply personal and moving is what it was. And for the last bunch of years, the last thing said at shows has been Doug expressing his thanks for fans, people coming to the shows, and reminding people not to take any bullshit from anyone. Funny thing is over the last few year King's X has seemed to promote people to believe in themselves. If that helps them become better people then so be it....but don't forget to pray for me ;)

Glenn
 
I'll take issue over these two points. Pray is probably one of the stongest songs Doug has written in recent years. There nothing sinister about the tone at all. Doug isn't telling you to believe in something specific. He's saying that if something is working for you, then be sure to include him in your thoughts. How is that sinister?

An secondly, Doug has been outspoken for more than 10 years. Go back and listen to the Woodstock '94 version of "Over My Head." What was so dark about him expressing his thoughts of his upbringing and encouraging the audience to put it all in perspective. Deeply personal and moving is what it was. And for the last bunch of years, the last thing said at shows has been Doug expressing his thanks for fans, people coming to the shows, and reminding people not to take any bullshit from anyone. Funny thing is over the last few year King's X has seemed to promote people to believe in themselves. If that helps them become better people then so be it....but don't forget to pray for me ;)

Glenn


I didn't mean to upset you. And I don't wish to hijack this thread and turn it into an analysis of King's X's spiritual side.

I've followed King's X since the release of their first album. I've interviewed the band. I've seen them perform live a half dozen times. The last time, perhaps five or six years ago, was such a terrible experience for me (because of Doug's "expressing his thoughts" as you put it) that I was turned off to them from that night on.

It's one thing to be open about one's life (and I don't care if Doug is gay or not...but I do I care if he was mistreated -- emotionally or physically -- at the hands of Christians and non-Christians alike). It's another to be swearing profusely, condemning the Christian church, mocking God, and fanning the flames of anger in people who, like Doug, only needed to be accepted and loved. The Dhammapada (the Buddhist equivalent of the Bible) puts it this way: "Only love dispels hate." Doug's hatred and bitterness for Christianity may make him feel better (although I doubt it). But it doesn't do much to fix problems he encountered along his life's journey. I found Doug's rant to be, as you noted, "deeply personal." But it was far from "moving." It was ugly. It was embarrassing. I felt sorry for him that he was so bitter that he felt only the need to spew venom.

The song "Pray" is only sinister (to use my word) when I know that he sings it from the other side of Christianity to those that he may still blame for the rocky road his life took. Despite the song's positive tone, put in context of Doug's life, it comes across as mocking to those who believe in God. That's what I meant by "sinister." I hear it as a slap, a jab, at those who believe from someone who no longer does. Perhaps it is a veiled plea from Doug for the prayers of people. But I doubt it. King's X are superb songwriters. If Doug had wanted people to pray for him -- truly thinking he needed it -- the song would have been written differently. So when I listen to it, I hear the Doug who, from that stage in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a half-dozen years ago, literally laughed at and mocked God and his followers. As I mentioned in my previous post, King's X never preached from the stage when they were Christians. So I find it offensive that they "preach" from the stage when they aren't.

You see Doug's openness as cathartic and positive. I see it as bitter and divisive. To each his own.

All this typed, I'm not going to mention any of this again. I would rather see this thread remain a positive exploration of the new King's X album (which is very, very good) than a recap of the ups and downs of their career of late.

So I apologize for interjecting my opinion into this early on.

On with the music!

Bill
 
Yes.



As I understand it, he's bitter because the same religious fans who embraced King's X back in the day for their spiritual messages have now largely turned their backs on the band (or at least, on Doug) after he "came out." In some cases, they've been pretty brutal about it.

I can certainly understand why he'd be bitter but......yeah. Enough; move on.

That is partially true. He didn't come out until after he began slamming the church and Christians. I think he felt pressure from the Evangelical movement in a lot of ways, and was sick of the lack of love in the church(a point to which I agree, but not to the detriment of my faith).He was also an open advocate for the use of marijuana and a lot of christians just slammed him for this(instead of being like Christ). Anyhow, I agree that when he allowed the thorns of this world to get him, a lot of the magic of thier music went with it. I think before Ear Candy, thier music was like the love of God in music form. Nowadays, it's still good and moving, but just not as spritually gratifying.
 
That is partially true. He didn't come out until after he began slamming the church and Christians. I think he felt pressure from the Evangelical movement in a lot of ways, and was sick of the lack of love in the church(a point to which I agree, but not to the detriment of my faith).He was also an open advocate for the use of marijuana and a lot of christians just slammed him for this(instead of being like Christ). Anyhow, I agree that when he allowed the thorns of this world to get him, a lot of the magic of thier music went with it. I think before Ear Candy, thier music was like the love of God in music form. Nowadays, it's still good and moving, but just not as spritually gratifying.
Very good point there, Zane. Are you a major Christian rock fan, BTW?
 
I didn't mean to upset you. And I don't wish to hijack this thread and turn it into an analysis of King's X's spiritual side.

I've followed King's X since the release of their first album. I've interviewed the band. I've seen them perform live a half dozen times. The last time, perhaps five or six years ago, was such a terrible experience for me (because of Doug's "expressing his thoughts" as you put it) that I was turned off to them from that night on.

It's one thing to be open about one's life (and I don't care if Doug is gay or not...but I do I care if he was mistreated -- emotionally or physically -- at the hands of Christians and non-Christians alike). It's another to be swearing profusely, condemning the Christian church, mocking God, and fanning the flames of anger in people who, like Doug, only needed to be accepted and loved. The Dhammapada (the Buddhist equivalent of the Bible) puts it this way: "Only love dispels hate." Doug's hatred and bitterness for Christianity may make him feel better (although I doubt it). But it doesn't do much to fix problems he encountered along his life's journey. I found Doug's rant to be, as you noted, "deeply personal." But it was far from "moving." It was ugly. It was embarrassing. I felt sorry for him that he was so bitter that he felt only the need to spew venom.

The song "Pray" is only sinister (to use my word) when I know that he sings it from the other side of Christianity to those that he may still blame for the rocky road his life took. Despite the song's positive tone, put in context of Doug's life, it comes across as mocking to those who believe in God. That's what I meant by "sinister." I hear it as a slap, a jab, at those who believe from someone who no longer does. Perhaps it is a veiled plea from Doug for the prayers of people. But I doubt it. King's X are superb songwriters. If Doug had wanted people to pray for him -- truly thinking he needed it -- the song would have been written differently. So when I listen to it, I hear the Doug who, from that stage in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a half-dozen years ago, literally laughed at and mocked God and his followers. As I mentioned in my previous post, King's X never preached from the stage when they were Christians. So I find it offensive that they "preach" from the stage when they aren't.

You see Doug's openness as cathartic and positive. I see it as bitter and divisive. To each his own.

I have to agree with this personally, I've probably seen them 10 times and I got so turned off by his vitriol once that I actually walked out of the show. It just changed the whole feel of the band for me. I still dig them, but I'm not dying to go see them live because I just don't like to deal with that at a show. I've seen them since that time, and he seemed to have toned it down a little bit later on. I wonder what the other guys in the band think about that. Does it make them feel conflicted do you think? Who knows....

For example, I saw Queensryche in Myrtle Beach a while back on the OM2 tour. I had seen them here in Atl 2 days prior as well. The Atlanta show, they came and destroyed. They did their thing and put on a show. At MB, Geoff came out with an anti-Bush placard and started ranting a bit, and it was a huge turnoff. I just didn't want to see my favorite band ever showing their ass like that.

To me, being political, or religious, or whatever is cool in your lyrics, but the way I see it people go to a show for a show, not to be proselytized for whatever cause the artist might happen to hold dear. That's just me. So I get a little uncomfortable when people really get on a soapbox.

And am I the only one that was never expecting to see KX put pentagrams on their album cover and in their art? I thought that was kinda disappointing.

On another note, Ogre Tones is a good record, and so is the new one.
 
I had my start in music through the church and the Christian heavy Metal scene. I met Jon through this scene, and have many great memories in it. I still listen to select bands as 98% of Christian metal is poorly writtenand produced. My fave is probably Stryper or Extol.

Yup. My old band Final Judgement was a Christian death metal band. I dig Believer, Living Sacrifice, Deliverance, Tourniquet, Precious Death, and a few others quite a bit.
 
I had my start in music through the church and the Christian heavy Metal scene. I met Jon through this scene, and have many great memories in it. I still listen to select bands as 98% of Christian metal is poorly writtenand produced. My fave is probably Stryper or Extol.
Right on, man. Any chance y'all will play a Stryper tune on Saturday night at MF?:saint: I love Christian metal/hard rock myself. More power to ya.:cool:
 
Way cool, dude! I like some of those bands, too. What if we could get some of them to play The Local sometime?:headbang:

Believer, could be as they're back together and talking about a new album and tour. Living Sacrifice are playing Masquerade with Demon Hunter the end of June. Tourniquet.....they lost me years ago. Deliverance.....Jimmy Brown is a casino dealer in Vegas now, believe it or not! =)
 
Believer, could be as they're back together and talking about a new album and tour. Living Sacrifice are playing Masquerade with Demon Hunter the end of June. Tourniquet.....they lost me years ago. Deliverance.....Jimmy Brown is a casino dealer in Vegas now, believe it or not! =)
WOWZAH! I heard that Jimmy's doing the Delieverance thing on occasion these days. I wish Barren Cross and Sacred Warrior would make comebacks. Oz Fox is now in Bloodgood as well as Stryper. It would be awesome if you guys could open for Stryper on their next tour stop in ATL!
 
WOWZAH! I heard that Jimmy's doing the Delieverance thing on occasion these days. I wish Barren Cross and Sacred Warrior would make comebacks. Oz Fox is now in Bloodgood as well as Stryper. It would be awesome if you guys could open for Stryper on their next tour stop in ATL!

I know Zane would wet his pants, that's for sure! =)
 
Not really related to King's X, but related to the discussion that's been going on for the past few posts.

Anyone with an even remote interest in Christian rock needs to listen to a band called mewithoutYou right the hell now. It's not metal. Their first album is post-hardcore and the 2nd and 3rd are sort of indie-rock/folk but that is really a very poor description. It's not like anything you've ever heard before.
 
Not really related to King's X, but related to the discussion that's been going on for the past few posts.

Anyone with an even remote interest in Christian rock needs to listen to a band called mewithoutYou right the hell now. It's not metal. Their first album is post-hardcore and the 2nd and 3rd are sort of indie-rock/folk but that is really a very poor description. It's not like anything you've ever heard before.
Mini tanks to yew.:cool:
 
Not really related to King's X, but related to the discussion that's been going on for the past few posts.

Anyone with an even remote interest in Christian rock needs to listen to a band called mewithoutYou right the hell now. It's not metal. Their first album is post-hardcore and the 2nd and 3rd are sort of indie-rock/folk but that is really a very poor description. It's not like anything you've ever heard before.


You're right -- sort of.

I'd never heard of them until your post. So I visited their MySpace page and their official web site.

They have a hip, catchy sound but it's not necessarily unique. They sound like Modest Mouse meets Drive-By Truckers. Their lyrics are of the seemingly stream-of-consciousness variety, with plenty of clever twists and turns of a phrase.

According to their MySpace tour schedule, on June 20th they'll be in Grand Rapids at a venue called Skelletones. Tammy Z probably remembers Skelletones. It's one of those underground, quasi-Goth, plenty-of-piercings-and-funny-haircuts places for teens. So mewithoutYou either considers that their fan base, or their mission field. Either way, it's a very, very young crowd. I'd stick out like a sore thumb there. If they let me in at all.

But their music is compelling. I'll give 'em that.

Thanks for letting us know about mewithoutYou!