lack of attack on my toms samples

[pifos_2]

greetings humans,

I'm busy recording my band lately.
We recorded toms samples, as we did not have extra 400 euros to buy decent toms mics, to be triggered in drumagog by our shitty x-ray tom mics uke:

the thing is that when we sampled the toms, it sounded pretty good. but as soon as I inserted them with the rest of the kit I seemed to lack of attack and power. I checked the phase and align everything, but still I sounds too "boiiinng" and not enough "dhhhuuuuh".

like this :
http://www.sneapforum.celtiaproductions.co.uk/pifos_2/tomsamples/TOM10-1-HARD.wav
http://www.sneapforum.celtiaproductions.co.uk/pifos_2/tomsamples/TOM12-1-HARD.wav
http://www.sneapforum.celtiaproductions.co.uk/pifos_2/tomsamples/TOM14-1-HARD.wav
http://www.sneapforum.celtiaproductions.co.uk/pifos_2/tomsamples/TOM16-1-HARD.wav

got it ?

I know I'm not gonna get super heavy extra kicking toms sounds that way and with these samples, but I still want to try to raise the quality of those anyway.

I thought that some processing could help me out. I tried some compression with some tips I found around here. but without sucess.

I'm not asking anyone to do the job for me but any advice or tips or ideas to begin would appreciated !!!

Thanx already because I'm a bit lost here.

PS : shit I whish I'd spent the extra cash to get toms mics :S

 

[botus99]

if you don't like the way they sound and you didn't get it the way you wanted through processing... then just use different samples. Problem solved

 

[colonel kurtz]

i listened to the 1st sample only, and it didn't sound all that bad...my advice would be to try compressing the toms with a fairly slow attack and fast-ish release, and with around a 3-4:1 ratio, if not higher

you'll also want to use EQ to boost the areas that pick up the attack - usually around the 3-4k area

it also might help to use some parallel compression on a buss for the toms, and compress the holy hell out of it

 

[pifos_2]

if you don't like the way they sound and you didn't get it the way you wanted through processing... then just use different samples. Problem solved

Not at all because the toms are resonating very much and very well into my overheads. as our cymbals sound great I don't want to filter them heavily to get the toms out of it.

i'm sure if i get some attack on the toms it will blend very nicely with my overheads and the rest of the kit...

 

[~BURNY~]

PC?
http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=4

 

[jesterroot4]

you'll also want to use EQ to boost the areas that pick up the attack - usually around the 3-4k area

spot on, i think it may be a good idea to boost between 3-7khz for better attack. compress the fuk out of it and try to make them sound a tight as posible BEFORE you sample them and add them to drumagog.

 

[AStacy2]

I usually boost around 6k on toms for attack.

 

[colonel kurtz]

yea...now that i think of it, i guess it's usually the 4-6k area that ends up getting the "attack" boost, but it's also going to depend on the toms, the tuning, drummer, etc. etc.

even better, try using the boost/sweep trick to find where the attack occurs, and see if throwing a high shelf EQ at that frequency helps. i've never bothered using it on toms, but i prefer it on kick to a parametric boost, so it might be worth a shot.

 

[pifos_2]

thanx for the help guys. i really appreciate it.
i tried a first EQ that gave me better result.

tomorrow i'll try the dominion plug in and try to work my eq'ing.

 

[Nebulous]

Did you have the mics pointed at the center of the tom skin, where the stick hits the skin? That usually helps. Because your samples are so dull, I'm thinking you might have gone with a more "rock" placement and had the mics pointed more at the edge of the skin.

 

[pifos_2]

Did you have the mics pointed at the center of the tom skin, where the stick hits the skin? That usually helps. Because your samples are so dull, I'm thinking you might have gone with a more "rock" placement and had the mics pointed more at the edge of the skin.

i used 2 mics. one sm 57 and a rode nt5. both of them were aimed pretty much at the center of the skin.
maybe it's a matter of the skin itself. we used aquarian. next time we'll try power stroke or pinstripe.

 

[~BURNY~]

i used 2 mics. one sm 57 and a rode nt5. both of them were aimed pretty much at the center of the skin.
maybe it's a matter of the skin itself. we used aquarian. next time we'll try power stroke or pinstripe.

No, next time, use clear emperor. No wonder why Andy favor them.

 

[jesterroot4]

also, make sure you have your tom positioned right when your hitting it. if you have it at an angle (like 45 degrees) there is no way in hell you will get any attack out of it... keep your toms as flat as posible!!!!!

 

[pifos_2]

No, next time, use clear emperor. No wonder why Andy favor them.

yep indeed. next time we'll go into this direction.
i tried dominion and its getting a little bit better.

i'll post a raw mix later. just to know what you guys think about my drum sound.

 

[pifos_2]

double post powa'. sorry.

 

[Ermz]

I've had Pinstripes on batter head and Aquarians on resonant head with good results. Plenty of brightness and a very controlled resonance.

I've also mixed toms with the Emperor/Ambassador combo. Very meaty, but I think that was due to the drummer tuning them so low. Actually he had made them sound so low-pitched and dead that it was almost hard to get them popping out of the mix.

 

[Black neon bob]

So basically, once they are recorded with a pretty dead and liveless sound, there is not much you can do to get them to pop out more?

 

[pifos_2]

So basically, once they are recorded with a pretty dead and liveless sound, there is not much you can do to get them to pop out more?

hum, not really. i tried an EQ. and it worked out pretty well.
try to find the annoying resonant frequencies and attenuate them. try to find the "attack frequencies" and use moderate positive gain.

also a high shelf really helped to add "brillance" to the attack.

 

[Ermz]

So basically, once they are recorded with a pretty dead and liveless sound, there is not much you can do to get them to pop out more?

You can try, but it won't sound the same as recording with newer heads. You'll be adding a considerable amount of high-frequency gain which will reduce the overall quality of the tom tracks. Even worse is trying to enhance tom tracks which have hits that are too weak for the material at hand.

 

[pifos_2]

After few EQ, sounds much better.
now the problem is that it's really difficult to make sound natural in the mix...

http://www.sneapforum.celtiaproductions.co.uk/pifos_2/tomsamples/tom10eq.wav

http://www.sneapforum.celtiaproductions.co.uk/pifos_2/tomsamples/tom12eq.wav

http://www.sneapforum.celtiaproductions.co.uk/pifos_2/tomsamples/tom14eq.wav