Land for Blacks Only - Zimbabwe

I don't think Mugabe gives a shit about anyone but his governement and close friends.
True he won't stay in power if people don't support him but how many fair elections have their been lately in the country? And also is it not a wee bit odd that in his campaign to evict all the people from "illegal plots" he is also evicting mostly people who would vote for the opposition.
The whole world knows that his government is seriously corrupt, takes money from aid for itself, beats up the opposition, bans some media coverage etc.

To be honest i can't imagine what will happen when Mugabe does stand down or die, there'll probably be a massive struggle from all his "loyal" supporters to take over, all wanting to be in charge.

I don't think the people are waiting to see what happens. I think most are too affraid to stand against his government, scared of what he might do.
 
"The whole world knows that his government is seriously corrupt, takes money from aid for itself, beats up the opposition, bans some media coverage etc."

This is the main problem I have with yours and everyone elses argument on this topic. Any journalist who wants to go to Zimbabwe wants to screem to us in the more powerful countries to convince us to take some form of action. These are noble people and I have tremendous respect for them, but their views are flawed by their ambition.

While I think that most people are jumping the gun by making a scapegoat of Mugabe, I agree that the real problem comes with the problem of succession. This government may be a short term solution, which I think was urgently needed, the long term developments are anybody's guess.
 
Whilst certain journalists may well only want to report such things for their own good I still don't see the situation being any better.
Governments know that the country is in chaos and is ruled by a person only concerned with himself and being in power. The UN is aware, media across the world is aware. Most people who have watched TV or read a newspaper in the past year are aware.

The situation is not good over there. Any country or leader that thinks it can ensure longterm stabilty by evicting his own people and by brutaly suppressing any oposition has serious problems.
I don't think anyone is making Mugabe a scapegoat, i think what we hear of him is true.
 
I didn't mean that the journalists are trying to further their careers, I mean that they're trying to stand up for the downtrodden people. That's why I commend them. I just think that their point of view, and thus our point of view, is flawed by their admirable activism.

I think that these journalists are oversimplifying the situation. I think that they're caught up in their desire to help the people with whome they are dealing and making assumptions about the govermnent. I think that these journalists have the very best of intentions.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." - proverb

For the record, the media in the US has almost completely ignored this topic. I haven't watched tv news in almost a year, but I understand the powers at work.

Has anyone ever seen a report about Zimbabwe on US tv?
 
speed said:
This is no Stalin led plan for industralization and modernization which at least appeared as if it was being done for more than the leader's own paranoia, this is the dismantaling and starving of a country for one man's political survival.
Click to expand...

Mugabe may be defective, but the idea is not!
 
I fail to see how any plan that relies on the forced romoval and starvation of thousands of your own citizens is not defective.
A good sensible plan for furthering the countries economic growth or whatever should have most of the population involved and should have no need for forced evictions.
 
Well, Stalin did such in the Soviet Union to the end that they beat us to Berlin. That's what Speed is talking about.

My goal is not to argue in defense of the Zimbabwean government. My goal is to argue that none of us has a clue about the situation unless we've lived there for decades. It's all too complicated for us to understand.

Infoterror, you don't have a fucking clue. This is Africa, the second largest, and by far the most socially complicated, land mass on Earth. If you think that your half-assed European theories can even begin to encompass the complexities of such social dynamics, you need to go back to square one.
 
I have a friend who has got a friend from Zimbawe visiting here for a few weeks. He now wants to live here because the situation there is so bad.

According to sources the inflation rate in Zim at the moment is 250% and unemployment is at ~75%. Doesn't look like any kind of good is happening there. I think even if none of us has gone there we still pretty much know what the situation is. Just turn on any reasonably trustworthy news station and you'll see the true picture. Obviously we can't imagine it to it's full extent but i think we all know that it's pretty stupid trying to kid ourselves that any good is coming out of Mugabe's government at the moment.
 
Lord SteveO said:
I fail to see how any plan that relies on the forced romoval and starvation of thousands of your own citizens is not defective.
A good sensible plan for furthering the countries economic growth or whatever should have most of the population involved and should have no need for forced evictions.
Click to expand...

So for you the world is limited to economy. How boring and stupid.
 
Where exactly did i say such a thing? Or are you just not able to read the post properly?

The reason i mentioned economy in my post was because it was one of the main things other people brought up in this discussion. I never said it was the only reason for Zimbawe's crazed politics and such, it merely gave it as an example.
 
metu said:
Well, Stalin did such in the Soviet Union to the end that they beat us to Berlin.
Click to expand...

Then he's an idiot, because they only survived thanks to Lend-Lease shipments from the USA.
 
OK, SteveO, I have no doubts that things are very bad over there. Let's assume that those numbers are correct. That is a crisis, no doubt.

These things have to be seen in context. When massive numbers of people migrate from the rural communities to urban centers and get jobs, you have industrialization. When those people migrate to the cities hoping for jobs and don't find them, you have trouble. In Southern Africa, this has been a recurrent theme since the sixties. People migrate to the outskirts of the urban centers and when they are stopped, they form organizations which tend to, generally unintentionally, at least by the movement's inceptors, inspire violence.

Beyond the humanitarian horror involved with potential of the level of violence in such a context, there is a pracital and economic aspect. I'm willing to state with some certainty that if a factory were built in Zimbabwe, the people would work just as hard for a little less that the Chinese. The thing that China can offer is a dominating confidence in stability. The threat of violence in Zimbabwe keeps investors away. Those shack-towns would have been like nothing we've ever seen.

Also, let's be clear that these people are not starving the way they would have a decade ago. They are at a UNICEF camp with food, water and medicine.
---------------
I saw a documentary on a few Peace Corps workers who were stranded in Albania when it collapsed into violence. There was some sort of expert who said, as if he was giving advice to a tourist, if you see nothing but young men standing around looking for something to do, leave the country.

An urban center incresing at a rabid rate with no employment in site is very dangerous.
 
That is a great question Terror!

Personally, I genuinely care about people all over the world, but I won't judge you because you don't. We all have our own reality with which to deal.

The world is getting smaller; the regions which we most ignore strike me as the most dangerous.
 
metu said:
The world is getting smaller; the regions which we most ignore strike me as the most dangerous.
Click to expand...

I think it's the elephants in the room we ignore that are the most dangerous.

Most conflict localizes. Nuclear or bioware is another story.

I don't care about people all over the world; I care about the world as whole. Crucial difference. People are like water.
 
Tropical Resource Ecology Program at University of Zimbabwe
http://www.uz.ac.zw/social/applied/teaching/tropical.html

The Aloe, Cactus and Succulent Society of Zimbabwe
http://www.zarnet.ac.zw/zsa/aloe.html

Wetlands Ecology and Priorities for Conservation in Zimbabwe -- Book summary
http://www.iucn.org/themes/wetlands/zimbabwe.htm

Flemish Universities / University of Zimbabwe – Aquatic Ecology Project
http://www.uz.ac.zw/projects/fisheries/

Pictures of Zimbabwe
http://www.korubo.com/Zimbabwe/Zimbabwe.html
------------
"She does not think, she just rectifies; survival is her thing." - George Clinton
 
Hmm some interesting llinks but what do they proove?

Zim is still very fucked up, and its a result of the government and Mugabe.

Apparently now there is such a food shortage the governement can no longer feed the army and are senting troops home to cut costs and the need to look after them.
 
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