Lets talk about pre production

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brownbeartle

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Apr 21, 2011
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Hey everyone!

Normally with bands around my area, we just record at tops an ep, and mostly just singles. So one of the few bands to stick around long enough to write a full length is coming back to me to record a 12 song cd. I've had experience with them when i recorded a 5 song ep about a year and a half ago. For some songs the arrangements could have been a little better, such as their last "breakdown" on the ep it could have had more contrast, and a better transition to make it "heavier" or just in simpler terms, make it better.

This time around, i suggested that they come over once they have their songs near or at completion and record the basics to iron out the arrangement. Pre-production. Also, just something to take home for everyone to practice to on a daily basis and not waste my time with 50 takes.

I have used interwebs :lol: to look more into the pre-production process, such as setting up tempos to better the song, take a look at arrangements, figure out the best way to tackle the actual recording process...

but i want to hear it from you guys.

i've gotten some great advice from all of you in the past, and i would love to hear your opinions, your advice, and what you would normally do with pre production before recording the actually album. Tell a story how you gave advice for one part to better the song, anything is welcome!

(sorry for the long post and my rambling)
 
This is actually very interesting topic, in fact very relevant to me right now. I would also like to hear/read some advice...
 
For example, my friend's melodic hardcore band Forbearance https://www.facebook.com/forbearancepa/app_204974879526524 (not promoting) went to Dave Piatek last summer, and he made them re-write the lyrics a million times after they sent the pre recorded tracks over to him before actually recording a thing. Also, he suggested to change a few parts that for the better, helped the song.

At this point of my recording career, i'm no longer looking for presets or "how to record guitar?", but for ways to better the band.
 
Sorry its a vague answer, but its essentially doing whatever needs to be done. Try and get the band to do demos, or do demos with them. Make lots of notes, try different tempos, keys, arrangements etc. maybe even think about trying different guitars/pickups etc so you know what to use come recording. Go over technique so they have time to practice.

Spend time on vocals especially, plan out harmonies and make sure the lyrics are up to scratch. Make sure the songs make sense and are cohesive.

The more time you spend on preproduction the more you'll save when it comes to tracking.

Every band has a different dynamic, and some things will work with some bands and not others. I like to have the band all jamming together in a room, and any ideas I come up with, instead of playing it to them, ill discuss it a little and try to get them to "subconsciously" come up with it themselves.

They'll feel far more responsive to ideas, it will sound like them, and it will get them in a more creative mindset when the ball starts rolling. Just try and guide them through......

And if possible, just make them practice the album songs over and over and over. Get the drummer to write the fills. Have them so its all instinctive.
 
as a producer who worked with labels pre-production is the most time consuming part of making an album. i'll start by getting the band to the studio and live recording all the songs as they have arranged them. after a couple of days i get back to them (usually via a long email) with comments/suggestions/changes i want and rough mixes of they're tracks for them to hear their playing and fine tune. after that they come to the studio and we spend some days finding tones, guitars, string gauges, pickups, choosing drums, mics etc by recording roughs and hearing everything in the mix. then we start tracking. the production hasn't ended yet. we make changes as we go. pre-production takes around 50% of the time, then it's 40% editing and 10% mixing and mastering. once everything is recorded and edited properly mixing and mastering are the easier steps and come very quickly. so if you want a good sounding album it's worth spending much time in the pre-production.
 
Thanks for the replies! Machinated, i feel as though any answer would be kind of vague, as every band and song would require a different approach. But anything is helpful! Especially the idea of "subconsciously" adding an idea instead of sort of forcing the idea upon them.

And if possible, just make them practice the album songs over and over and over. Get the drummer to write the fills. Have them so its all instinctive.
Click to expand...

This was my main plan for doing pre production. Not to say they're bad musicians or cannot play their parts, but there was more editing and more of me getting more takes then i wish i would have. I'll even bounce multiple mixes (say no drums, or no vocals) for the band to practice to.
 
One of the most important parts of giving feedback to musicians during preproduction is to explain exactly why you think that your opinion will help the song. Saying "Just cause I don't like it!" doesn't really have enough weight. Unless you are Bruce Dickinson and you put your pants on in the morning like any other guy, but once they are on, you make gold records! :D

Here's an example of what I suggested to a girl from NYC who asked me for feedback on a track. The song is at: http://valeriegentile.bandcamp.com/track/erase



1. I love the start of the song because it's a cool mix of an electronic loop, a surf-guitar and a The Cure bass. I really don't like most alternative music that is released cause it fails to grab my interest right from the start (it's actually worse when I know the people who made the music!) and "Erase" managed to keep me listening till the end.

2. When the vocal comes in, the vocal melody is good, but it sounds a bit "off" on some notes. It's only very subtle and I am very aware that that may be a conscious artistic decision but I would tune it in that part for one particular reason: the guitar melody in the background provides a strong countermelody to the vocal and due to the fact that you are using a chorus/leslie/modulation effect on it it becomes a bit hard to discern the actual melody or tonal center. You should definitely not overtune it but since you are singing rather long/straight notes you can get away with some heavy tuning that will make the whole bass/guitar/vocal-compound appear more coherent and establish a clearer harmony than currently.

3. Regarding the guitar in the intro and in the verse: the melody changes a bit too often for my tastes. Especially at the beginning. Basically before the vocals you have two variations (A1 & A2) that both end with a lower note at the end. Then once the vocal comes in you simultaneously change the guitar melody to go up. To me this is confusing because it introduces two changes at the same time (vocal & guitar), just when the listener thought he had a grasp on the guitar melody. Yes, the guitar melody is similar to A1 & A2, but it goes up and therefore a) interferes with the vocal melody and b) steals listener attention from the vocal. There's really no need for that because in a song like this the vocal and the vibe is the money. I would just repeat the A1 & A2 for a while and then bring the higher guitar variations at a point in the first verse when the vocal melody has become established and the listener has an idea of where to go (maybe after "eyes shut tight"). Mix wise you might consider doubling the guitar and panning it L40/R40 to get it out of the way of the vocal.

4. The first chorus struck me as weird. I like the harmony, I like the melody, I like the word choice ("there is no erasing" as well as words like "trouble" and "heart" are good because they are a mix of alternative and pop and people relate to them without thinking of Billy Ray Cyrus directly) but I don't like the Phil Collins-tombreak going into the chorus (it's too "grandiose" for a rather soft track like this). I also think the tom pattern underneath the chorus doesn't serve a purpose. Or if the purpose is to give more energy/size to the chorus, then (in my ears, at least on shitty speakers) it doesn't work. Again, like the guitars in (3), the tom's don't really add anything valuable like a massive tribal groove or powerful accents, they are just there and distract me from the vocal. If it was my song, I'd try and create bigness (without going Nickelback-big!) by doing this:

a) throw out the toms, let the drums play with closed straight hi-hat in the first chorus and add to that in the later choruses with open hats and more cymbals
b) play simple clean-chords, double them L/R, then play simple distorted powerchords, double them L/R and put them underneath just for texture
c) leave the straight bass like it is, it will create a sense of more drive/movement once the toms don't interfere with its straightness
d) take the clean melody guitar, play it an octave higher, double it L75/R75 and level them quieter than they are now. Yes, you'll have 6 guitars but the middle will be freed up for your vocals

5. On the last few beats of the first chorus, stop the drums and let the guitar/bass ring out. This way you'll create a low point from which the 2nd verse can pick up.

6. Ironically the 2nd verse works better for me than the 1st because the guitar is not playing continously and thereby is not interfering with the vocal. Also, the vocals here don't have the "tuning problems" that I mentioned in (2).

7. The bridge "Get in the car and drive ..." is great. I'd start the snarefill earlier with softer hits at half-time of the current fill and then graduate to the fill like it is now.

8. The "breakdown" (where you repeat vocals with a modulated/radio-voice) is good but needs a little buildup in the 2nd half. Otherwise it makes no sense to run it as long as it is playing now.

9. The transition to the final chorus is off. It seems like the breakdown has more energy than the chorus.



I give a concrete reason for each opinion I have. If you can't explain your opinion/decision, you need to figure out how you came to that opinion before you present it to the artist. Otherwise there's no way they'll respect you in the long run.
 
smy1 that's great advice and it introduces another view about producing. thanks.
 
I N e v e r release anything a 100% ready preproduction.
Especially for my bands(Deuteronomy,Cease of Breeding) Preproduction is the most consuming part of the whole thing.
Especially nowdays,with a guitar/bass preamp,a drum machine and a DAW preproduction is very easy
 
smy1 thanks for the great post, example, and audio file! From what you've described i've done this before with bands/solo acts. But like i said, they come in with their finished product and i have to suggest ways to improve the recording after the fact. At that point its too late
 
Tempo mapping cannot be over-rated.

Demo the songs live.
create a tempo map that makes each part of the song feel right.
a 1 bpm difference is a difference.
when contemplating over a part - faster is better than slower.
TEMPO MAPPING CANNOT BE OVER-RATED.
 
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