Let's talk drum tuning!

[Heabow]

I didn't know if I had to post this in the FOH section or right here as it concerns both worlds. Anyway...

Well, drum tuning is, from my point of view, a real challenge as the drums are very central especially in metal and rock music and each kit, each drumhead is different and it has to fit the music, the drummers wishes (yes it counts for me) and to fit what we - as producer/engineer (not really that I consider myself as one but you get the point - want and need for the project.

Being a guitarist myself, I've never been really into drum tuning until I came to record drummers, say 2 years ago. So I searched here and there for advices, tips and general rules. Then I found out these little tutos: that are pretty instructive imo but you know, everything is easier when you see it in vids than in real situation Practice is the key word I guess but unfortunately the only moments I can practice is when I'm about to record. Finally I had not too bad results and sometimes pretty good results so far but if I wanna be totally honest with you, I couldn't say I was 100% sure of what I was doing. Feeling is good but I want to learn for real!

I think it could be cool to share our different techniques and tips, gear stuff like drumheads but also tunebot-like things, etc. in brief what usually works best for you. Maybe sharing some videos, tutos... could be also great.

Personally, I try to follow the technique Bob shows for the snare. Although I find sometimes VERY difficult to really hear the note. I usually tune the toms "at fourth" or "perfect firth" (?? sorry don't know the english words for that. Say, tom1 is A high, tom2 is E, tom3 is A low), same pitch on the batter and the bottom. I have a preference for Evans drumheads, clear G2 for tom batters. I just tried G2 coated and didn't like them at all at least with this particular drummer... It sounded too "round" if that makes sense.

Well, I hope such a thread has not already been opened and sorry for my shitty english ahah!

Cheers!

Edit - just found out this great vid from Glenn Fricker (cannot find the other ones tho):

 

[Plendakor]

Not a trick but an opinion tho .. To me, drums really are the center/motor of the music/songs and it's a real shame to see a sea (pun) of drummers overlooking tuning. I think it's the key to a perfect prod. A tom playing A# when the key of the song is A is theoretical non-sens to me.

 

[Machinated]

I basically always tune the kit to the notes in the song, but I remember eric valentine making a great point that it's going to sound MUCH worse if you try to tune it to notes and they're slightly out than if they're just tuned to "what sounds good".

drums have been recorded lots of different ways and there's no one set philosophy that works for everything. As I said, I generally like tuning to notes but I do cringe inside a bit when it starts sounding like a keyboard..... Doesn't feel as "rock n roll" to me.

My advice would be to pick up a tunebot, learn tuning drums as much as you can and then decide what you like aesthetically, and to work out what you think would be best for each project. As long as you are thinking about it and making decisions based on what you're hearing, you're doing it right ��

 

[MatrixClaw]

I own a DrumDial and a Tune-bot and am at the point where I simply don't need either one of them to get a sound I like. Both were indispensable for getting me to where I am now, but I felt like they were also hindering me from getting the best sound out of the drums. They're nice for people who don't really know what they're doing, but almost lock you into a certain way of thinking. However, I WILL always read the final tuning and write it down (usually on the heads) so if it goes out of tune, it's easier to get it back where I liked it, instead of having to guess.

Now, I tune entirely to feel and then match lug pitch until I get the right balance. What used to take me 30 minutes to tune a snare now takes me 2. The biggest thing I've learned tuning drums? USE TWO DRUM KEYS! Seriously - it's WAY easier to achieve equial tension and pitch right off the bat if you're using two keys on either side of the drum, tightening the same amount. I tried tuning a Ludwig Supraphonic I just got the other day with one key and failed miserably, struggling for almost an hour with that drum. I finally gave up, went and found another key and bam, done within seconds.

 

[mva801]

The tune bot is Super helpful. It's helped me tune my ear much better, so that now I can pretty much tune by ear, then just use the tune bot at the very end and mark down the settings so we make sure they stay in tune.

 

[Ribbon]

To people who tune according to key: What do you do when the key changes? If tuning to key is so important, I expect "gear shift" modulations so common to pop music to be really jarring if drum tuning doesn't follow as well. What would you do for the final part of this song, for example?



Would you change the tuning of the drum elements involved? Personally, I'd find that more jarring than just accepting that drums will be out of tune in that section. In terms of their musical role, drums are first and foremost percussive impacts, not tone carriers. When you change their tuning, the impression of the severity of impact changes and if that happens mid-song, that is a lot more problematic than any barely perceptible tuning disagreements.

 

[FrankTheSmith]

Can someone post a song that has toms tuned to the song and a song with toms not tuned to the song? Can anyone even pick that out?
I think as long as a drum sounds good it won't matter if it's a C and the song is in D.

Maybe tune the snare to the song if it's like a suicide silence reeaaaally ringy snare. Maybe not.

 

[Studdy]

What tune bot settings are guys generally around? I have found the tunebot to be all over the map. Even when using it properly with the filter.

 

[mickrich]

I made comments re this in a drum tuning thread from last year.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/f-o-h/901818-how-do-you-tune-your-drums.html

 

[ArthurD]

I always tune for the song, Snare is between F# and G#...
I use the tunebot calculations for batter and reso heads. Then I put it in note mode, and fine tune to the note.

 

[Plendakor]

Ribbon and FrankTheSmith, I'm supposed to make a video on the topic soon. There is a major differance IMO. Also, if the song shift keys, the drummer just needs to have a super kit

Picture the drums in that Phil Colins tune ("I can feel it" something). Imagine the drums a semitone higher ..

 

[Heabow]

I don't think it's important to tune the drums according to the key of the song. At least in metal. Maybe in some cases, you have to make the tom fit the key but it's really rare I guess.

I find my snares are always very ringy, too much, even with a moongel on them. I think it's the most difficult drum to tune for me.

Any preferences drumhead wise?

 

[mva801]

Well this topic is kind of a never-ending one. I find the tune-bot to be the opposite of "all over the map" It's very consistent and helpful. Maybe you're doing somehting wrong studdy?

I've never really tried to tune the drums to the note of the song. Most bands I work with are all over the map as far as keys. They don't just park it whatever minor of the lowest tuning like 98% of metal bands.

If I did that I'd be re-re-retuning my drums 4 times a day. Fuck that.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I don't think it's important to tune the drums according to the key of the song. At least in metal. Maybe in some cases, you have to make the tom fit the key but it's really rare I guess.

I find my snares are always very ringy, too much, even with a moongel on them. I think it's the most difficult drum to tune for me.

Any preferences drumhead wise?

Are you cranking the reso head? What size drums are you using?

If it's really bad, the best one for the job is an Evans Genera HD Dry, or just the Genera Dry if you prefer a thinner head. Personally, I really dig the Remo Ambassador, sometimes the Emperor. I generally prefer single-ply, but some guys bust them without even trying somehow. I always use Evans Hazy 300 on the reso.

Equal tension and pitch at each lug will help a lot to get rid of ring, as well. Use 2 drum keys at opposite lugs, seriously, SO MUCH FASTER to tune up and get it sounding great.

 

[slo77y]

to me, the single most important factor of how to tune the drums is: how will the drums be played. to me, the spot where a drum sounds good is not only proper tuning, but proper hitting, and each has to complement each other to make a good sound. an example:

most hardcore-drummers that show up at my studio have the snare they´re bringin with them tuned WAY too high, because it makes the snare be heard in the rehearsel room, but sounds like absolute cock with a closemic on it or through any mic.

how hard you hit changes EVERYTHING for me, tuning-wise. a lot of drummers play too hard, and tune too high. self proclaimed hard-hitters usually cant let the stick bounce back, but play INTO the drumhead, effectively choking it. in that case hard hitting sounds like shit. if u play hard, the pitch of the drum changes up to 10hz (in my experience) to what tunebot says when ur tuning it with it (with the light taps of course).

had an incident just 2 days ago, the drummer i was recording would play extremely hard, and the snare sounded like shit because it could not handle the pressure at that tuning. what you get is that no-body "clank" type of sound, with virtually zero amplitude at the usual 180-220hz spot where the body lies. playing that hard of course loosens the screws of the drum.. eventually it was loose enough so the body came back, and the snare sounded quite good again instantly. with that tuning, another drummer who does not hit as hard (in my experience there is a HUGE spectrum of how hard drummers play) would sound like shit with that tuning, because he wouldnt get enough/any attack out of the drum. to me, at least snares have to be tuned to the point where there is a balanced amount of attack and body, at the volume it is being hit.

 

[DrumWerks]

That second video is BS: "99% of drummers don't know how to tune their kit."

Most do - they may not always put the effort in 100% of the time, because kits go out of tune quickly if you're beating the hell out of them.

But, I hate BS claims like that that only perpetuate the same old tired cliches.

 

[mva801]

^^^ I dunno man I've recorded quite a lot of drummers and a LARGE percentage don't tune very well at all.

I sure didn't until I started engineering and had to learn as opposed to just being ok with shitty sounding drums.

 

[DrumWerks]

It's possible they are shitty drummers more than the drum themselves.

Good drummers really know how to hit the drum to get it to sing. Even a so-so drum can sound better in the hands of someone who know how to play it.

If you pound the living hell out of it with no regard for the sound it produces, that tends to give it the "sounds like shit" quality.

But, I will give you this much: Most drummers don't care about the sound of the drums as much as the microphones do.

Just venting!

 

[Heabow]

I tried a Tension Watch and I think it helps a lot but I find a bit tricky whe you want to check the tuning between songs when recording. So I think I'll buy a Tunebot. Easier to use on drums already set up.

 

[DrumWerks]

The tunebot is a good tool - I have one. However, it is not a magic bullet. You still have to have "the" sound you're after in your head. But, once found, it's nice to note the values the Tunebot gives and write them down. I pretty much just Sharpie it on the head.

This Tunebot speeds up the process of getting back to that pitch/sound quite a bit. I found it really useful to check tom pitch after a long recording session to make sure the tom pitches would match when editing later.

Also, it's a good tool for experimenting. You play around looking to squeeze different sounds out of a drum, note it, recall it later if you're after after that same sound.

It's $100, but I have used it way more than the drum dial.