Limiting Vs. Compression

[GearMan2point0]

I want to start a thread where we can discuss when to use a limiter or a compressor. Also, we can discuss what are the better limiters and compressors for what.

What I use:

Drums (kick, snare and toms)
I use a compressor....
I use Waves C1 Comp because it is simple and handy
Threshold -20
ratio 4:1
Attack 1 or 2
Release 100 - 300 depending on tempo

**NOTE: I put the compressor on a bus in which is sent to the drum bus where the kick, snare and toms are sent to. Basically parallel Compression (if you don't know, look it up). For Kick I don't have the fader (to the compressor) that hi, usually only 20% because overcompressed kicks sound weird.

Drums (Overheads)
I use a limiter....
I use Waves L1, and I do because a lot of others do honestly, and it works. Goodbye bleed
Threshold -12
Out Ceiling -12

Bass
I use limiter.... L1 (mono)
Preset TrackSlammer

**NOTE: Keeps the bass at a consistent volume, which makes for a more full sound. Limiters are more appropriate because Bass needs fast reaction when being squashed where compressors act too slow and that could mean pumpy sounding and less consistent bass.

Guitars
I use Limiter.... L1
Threshold -12
Ceiling -12
Same reason as bass and OH's

Vocals
I use Compressors (Rvox & C1 Comp)
Fast attack
slow release

I just do.....

Mastering
I use Limiting and not Compressor



Now people please feel free to discuss the controversy with Limiters and Compressors and why which is appropriate for certian aspects.

PS. No Flames, I know well that there are other threads that touch up on this topic, but I want this thread to be about how it all comes together into one. Post links if you'd like.

 

[DevonSteelman]

Here's a quick rundown on compression/limiting I usually do on all of my mixes.

Drums:

Kick/Snare/Toms: Distressor - 4:1, fast attack, medium release, 6db gain reduction, dist 2 enabled.

Overheads/Cymbals: Waves L1 - Threshold varies depending on how much snare I'm getting. I only go as far as I need to in order to destroy the snare. Release usually ends up around 30.

Room: Distressor - NUKE or 20:1, with a pretty fast attack, and medium release, dist 3 enabled.

Rhythm Guitars: Waves C4 - Sneap preset, with some fine tuning.
Waves CLA-3A - Peak reduction around 4 1/2 to 5 1/2, limiter enabled, hifreq is flat.

Lead Guitar: Waves CLA-76 Bluey - 4:1, fast/medium attack, medium release.
Waves L2 - Threshold usually ends up around -6db to -12db depending on dynamics, auto release on.

Bass: Waves CLA-76 Blacky - 12:1, fast attack, medium/slow release.
Waves L2 - Threshold usually ends up around -6db to -8db, auto release on.
Waves C4 - A lot of fine tuning that is strictly dependent on the source.

Vocals: Distressor - 6:1/10:1, fast/medium attack, fast/medium release, 10db gain reduction, dist 3 enabled.

 

[GearMan2point0]

When you are using CLA-76 Bluey do you ever find that it reacts too slow? Most bassists I record, use a pick, and I feel that is a key component and I don't really think that Compressor kick in fast enough to push it down and smoothin it out. It could be a taste thing. Some people like the click to stand out.

 

[OneDaySky]

NICE Info man! Great starting point for noobs!

 

[DevonSteelman]

When you are using CLA-76 Bluey do you ever find that it reacts too slow? Most bassists I record, use a pick, and I feel that is a key component and I don't really think that Compressor kick in fast enough to push it down and smoothin it out. It could be a taste thing. Some people like the click to stand out.

The 1176 is known for having one hell of an attack time. It's pretty rare for someone to say it's too slow. In fact, some people would say it even reacts too fast. I use the CLA-76 Blacky before the L2 to try and even it out a little bit so I don't completely smash it to hell. The L2 makes things mushy very fast.. So the less work I make it do, the better.

 

[ahjteam]

Threshold -20

Threshold is irrelevant, but it's more important to know how much gain reduction you are getting.

 

[GearMan2point0]

Threshold is irrelevant, but it's more important to know how much gain reduction you are getting.

I thought I would just throw it out there.

 

[JeffEstrada]

Threshold is irrelevant, but it's more important to know how much gain reduction you are getting.

I have to agree with you
knowing the gain reduction, we can set our own threshold depending on our own levels.

 

[GearMan2point0]

Okay guys, well anyways back to what the thread is about. I want to know what people think is appropriate for what.

 

[koalamo]

I limit every major channel with ozone

and compress certain things as well

Drum Buss: Ozone on fast and loud just hitting the peaks.
Compress the kick/snare/toms individually as well.

Guitars: LA-3A with about 2 or 3 db of reduction and gain at 5.

Bass: cla-76 black face doing a consistant 5-7 db with a medium attack slightly faster release into izotope izone fast and loud setting
just hitting the peaks to help it sit better

Vocals: cla-76 blueface slow attack fast release into ozone fast and loud cutting peaks

Background vocals I usually slam with ozone on the transparent setting taking off a constant 5 to 6 db to keep them from jumping out at random places and help them sit behind the lead


So yeah. I limit alot of shit haha

 

[GearMan2point0]

Why would someone Compress Vocals and not limit them?

 

[Scott Horner]

Why would someone Compress Vocals and not limit them?

I typically do both. I usually use staged compression on the actual vocal tracks and then throw a limiter on the vocal buss. The compressors even out the volume and the limiter is mainly for keeping the overall vocal level consistent. I'm usually not limiting to the point of completely squashing the vocals but just enough to keep everything consistent. This may or may not be the "correct" way (if there is such a way) but I find that it works for me. You may have a different experience.

 

[jman1986]

Sometimes when things are to consistant with eachother I noticed some of the dynamics in the song are gone, and everything is the same volume. I guess i'm using to much limit/compression?

 

[GearMan2point0]

I know what I would do, I just want threads to be more about presets and more about understanding the reasoning. Anyone can throw a compressor on a track and punch in the same attack and release as someone else, but I want people to read this thread and understand more about these things, I notice that there are a lot of threads, that don't really explain the why goodenough

 

[GearMan2point0]

I find that either way it takes away from the performance....too bad vocalists arent robotic and don't have bionical vocal chords of awesomeness so we didn't have to use compressors and pitch correctors.

 

[Scott Horner]

Sometimes when things are to consistant with eachother I noticed some of the dynamics in the song are gone, and everything is the same volume. I guess i'm using to much limit/compression?

Yes. Compression is used to reduce the dynamic range of a sound source so it is very easy to completely destroy the dynamic content. You have to find that balance of leveling out the volume while still maintaining the dynamics. You may try using a few different compressors to even everything out rather than using one single comp to do all the work.

 

[jimwilbourne]

I know what I would do, I just want threads to be more about presets and more about understanding the reasoning. Anyone can throw a compressor on a track and punch in the same attack and release as someone else, but I want people to read this thread and understand more about these things, I notice that there are a lot of threads, that don't really explain the why goodenough

if you're referring to understanding Compression & Limiting and when each are appropriate, you're not going to get a clear answer. it's relative to what the mix needs.

Limiting, Compression & Expansion (and Gating) are all part of the Dynamic Spectrum, just at different extremes & different settings.

The main purpose of each is to either:
- contain peaks
- balance levels
- loudening

and sometimes:
- making sounds bigger/fatter
- adding warmth
- reshaping dynamic envelopes

the amount of Gain Reduction, Attack, Ratio, knee, etc affects how the compressor or limiter brings one or more of these characteristics to the signal.

The difference that separates the Limiter from the Compressor is really just how the plugin or hardware is setup. Limiting is agressive. it draws a line in the dirt and tells the signal it best not cross it no matter what. in addition, it must have peak-sensing, a hard knee & a zero (really fast) attack time. This can be achieved with a great compression plug.

but a great limiting plug takes it one step further.
It still says: "Don't you dare cross this line," but employs the means to soften the drastic effect of hard limiting.
It does this by either using a progressively growing Knee to reach a limiting ratio and/or applying 2 different stages of compression (the first stage deals with what is below the thresh and using a look ahead function to apply a more transparent limiting without the guarantee of not passing the thresh. and then if it does pass the thresh it is clipped down by a second more agressive stage).


so when do you want to use each?
if you want: more dynamics or control over your attack/knee/hold - grab a compressor.
if you want: loudness maximizing, demi-clipping or peak limiting func - Limiter is your guy.

I could probably talk at length about this topic. but this is a decent summation.

 

[GearMan2point0]

Yes, that sums it all up! haha ^^

 

[Dustin Morrison]

I've tried both methods of stacking comps and the other method of limiting. I usually limit the hell out of screaming stuff but when you do that you have to have a really quiet noise floor or it will bring that out really bad. If you have a really quiet noise floor it makes the gating easier and less work for you. Otherwise you gotta go in and edit by hand. For the singing stuff I generally use the Waves 1176 Blue (it's a little brighter to my ears) and sometimes I'll throw on an LA2A after the 1176 if I have the 1176 setup fast. I like my UAD stuff too but it creates more latency when tracking so I just use the Waves.