All about stage compression

[LeSedna]

Hello,

I've re-read threads I've bookmarked and I see many of you do crazy amounts of stage compression.

I myself often do stuff like that, especially for bass :

comp > ampsim > comp > limiter

And I'm not afraid of having dozen of dB of compression sometimes. I smash my vocals as well, but I do it with only a few compressors chained.

But I have seen, from talented people here, some chains close to :

comp (printed) > ---- > comp > comp > limiter > comp

And each compressor being different, from C4 to LA2A to Rvox, or 1176, stillwell rocket, etc.

My question is : how do you feel you have to use C4 there, and then add some 1176, then limit, and then add a compressor over it ? If some of you guys do it, I guess there is a meaningful reason to do so.

Is that colour ? Is that each comp have it's personnal role (like : one has to tame the most obvious transients, then the second is there to de-breathe, then the last one is to acually compress, then a limiter) ? Is that your ears tell you there is a sweet spot around 6dB of reduction for a plugin and you prefer staging 2 instead of compressing more with only one instance ?

Also, what's the purpose of a compressor after a limiter ? I know, a limiter is actually a compressor, but I just don't get it. When I try this out of curiosity, I don't know what my ears are supposed to feel. I just use my limiters to almost brickwall a track, so how do you use them ?

I'm very interested in your input about all this

 

[koalamo]

Hello,

I've re-read threads I've bookmarked and I see many of you do crazy amounts of stage compression.

I myself often do stuff like that, especially for bass :

comp > ampsim > comp > limiter

And I'm not afraid of having dozen of dB of compression sometimes. I smash my vocals as well, but I do it with only a few compressors chained.

But I have seen, from talented people here, some chains close to :

comp (printed) > ---- > comp > comp > limiter > comp

And each compressor being different, from C4 to LA2A to Rvox, or 1176, stillwell rocket, etc.

My question is : how do you feel you have to use C4 there, and then add some 1176, then limit, and then add a compressor over it ? If some of you guys do it, I guess there is a meaningful reason to do so.

Is that colour ? Is that each comp have it's personnal role (like : one has to tame the most obvious transients, then the second is there to de-breathe, then the last one is to acually compress, then a limiter) ? Is that your ears tell you there is a sweet spot around 6dB of reduction for a plugin and you prefer staging 2 instead of compressing more with only one instance ?

Also, what's the purpose of a compressor after a limiter ? I know, a limiter is actually a compressor, but I just don't get it. When I try this out of curiosity, I don't know what my ears are supposed to feel. I just use my limiters to almost brickwall a track, so how do you use them ?

I'm very interested in your input about all this

Interested in this too especially with the 1176 and la2a sooooo bump

 

[OneDaySky]

You got a good point there man. I think the C4 is to control the low end so the compressor doesn't work as hard and can comp more frequencies rather than it squashing mainly lows on certain dynamic parts when you want it to compress/level out the signal. Thats just my take on it though.

 

[botus99]

1176 -> LA2A combo is VERY common.

Basically, treat the 1176 as a quick peak limiter (fast attack and release, only grabbing the large peaks)
Then use the LA-2A as desired. Heavy or light compression on the LA-2A is totally up to your taste.

The reason behind it is to use the 1176 for something its great at (grabbing fast attacks and sounding good while doing it) so that the LA-2A doesn't have to work as hard on those large peaks and can do what its great at (smoothing out material in a FAT way). This leads to less pumping and allows you higher GR without the pumping... within reason. Experiment with it on vocals, bass, snare drums, etc.

 

[LeSedna]

About C4 : yeah I do the same with reaxcomp.

@botus99 : I sort of already do that with a fast compressor, tweaking it until it only is active on peaks I consider too hot, and then compress normally after that in the chain. But I usually don't end having 4 compressors one after the other.

I know, there is no need to do something I don't feel necessary in my own workflow, but since it seems quite common, I'm interested in hearing examples of such chains, explaining what role takes each compressor, so that I can maybe integrate some ideas in my workflow.

 

[botus99]

@LeSedna
That was more for koalamo's post. Sorry, I'm not a user of more than 2 compressors on one track so I couldn't help you there. I'm interested in hearing someone chime in on this topic of using more than 3 compressors too though

 

[pikachu69]

To understand what kind of compression to use and weather or not it will be for leveling or tonal shaping will depend on the 'kind' of compression you use.
There are many kinds of compression:
•Diode bridge
•Variable-mu vacuum tube
•FET
•Optical
•VCA (voltage controlled amplifier)
•Digital

Each one behaves vastly different and therefore each one suits a particular purpose, some impart an eq shaping while some are very natural and don't color the sound. Learning to understand the differences will help to answer these questions.
Also, the way an instrument is tracked will vastly influence the kind of compression that may be required to fit it in a mix. This is also true when it comes to the style of music you are mixing.

If any one wants a run down on the types of compression I mentioned above leave a comment and I will do it either tonight or in the morning.

 

[nch3966]

i thought it was to avoid pumping

like evening out the workload

like when 2 people lift something heavy

terrible analogy but you get it



edit:what Botus said haha

 

[B36arin]

I talked to Jens Bogren a few days ago, he usually uses Waves VComp on the drum bus to strengthen the transients a bit before smashing the drum bus with a hardware 1178. So that's yet another approach.

 

[nch3966]

i read up on that h comp

doesnt cant you link the release time to tempo or something? per cool

 

[LeSedna]

If any one wants a run down on the types of compression I mentioned above leave a comment and I will do it either tonight or in the morning.

That would be nice ! I wasn't aware of the existence of some types you mentionned.

 

[MonochromaticStains]

here is a video on how to use the 1176 and la2a together, its on using UAD's versions of both, the premise is sound. Material isn't metal, but still gets you the idea.

 

[pikachu69]

That would be nice ! I wasn't aware of the existence of some types you mentionned.

•Diode bridge
Is a lesser used type of compression. Neve 33609 diode-bridge compressor, as modelled by Universal Audio is an example of this type. It imparts a 'warmth' to the sound so it has its own color.
•Variable-mu vacuum tube
Most people should be familiar with a tube/valve compressor. The property ‘mu’ of a vacuum tube can be loosely thought of as gain. There is a special type of vacuum tube that allows the mu to be altered - hence ‘variable mu’. The distortion characteristics of variable-mu compressors are usually found to be subjectively pleasant.
•FET
(field-effect transistor) is a special type of transistor that produces very little distortion. An FET compressor is capable of low-distortion performance, hence a ‘clean’ rather than ‘warm’ sound.
•Optical
Optical compressors (or 'opto') are also capable of low-distortion performance and have a clean sound.
•VCA (voltage controlled amplifier)
The VCA is designed to be linear, hence the distortion can be very low, providing a very clean performance.
•Digital
Digital compressors have no real reason to introduce distortion or other artifacts as its process is achieved via calculation. However, if a compressor is modelled to emulate a particular type of model of compressor, then it's distortion and so on will be present in the digital version.

So you really have to think about what compressor/s you use on each source and in what order you use them. If you like to EQ before you compress then you would be waisting your time spending hours tweeking your EQ, getting it just right then slapping a tube compressor on the vocal buss. Some of the warmth a compressor can add can be enough to bury a vocal back into the mix. (depending on the mix) If you are happy with the EQ but need more stability then an opto compressor (Rcomp) will compress without imarting a tonal change or adding distortion.
Try using a comp that colors before you reach for EQ to help achieve the tone you are after then use EQ to polish the sound.

Try to think of it as many do round here with running multiple EQ's. Sergical comps and coloring comps. In what order is up to you and your ear.

If you are un sure what style of compression your plugins are emulating,
RTFM. :Smokedev:

 

[domingooo]

•Diode bridge
Is a lesser used type of compression. Neve 33609 diode-bridge compressor, as modelled by Universal Audio is an example of this type. It imparts a 'warmth' to the sound so it has its own color.
•Variable-mu vacuum tube
Most people should be familiar with a tube/valve compressor. The property ‘mu’ of a vacuum tube can be loosely thought of as gain. There is a special type of vacuum tube that allows the mu to be altered - hence ‘variable mu’. The distortion characteristics of variable-mu compressors are usually found to be subjectively pleasant.
•FET
(field-effect transistor) is a special type of transistor that produces very little distortion. An FET compressor is capable of low-distortion performance, hence a ‘clean’ rather than ‘warm’ sound.
•Optical
Optical compressors (or 'opto') are also capable of low-distortion performance and have a clean sound.
•VCA (voltage controlled amplifier)
The VCA is designed to be linear, hence the distortion can be very low, providing a very clean performance.
•Digital
Digital compressors have no real reason to introduce distortion or other artifacts as its process is achieved via calculation. However, if a compressor is modelled to emulate a particular type of model of compressor, then it's distortion and so on will be present in the digital version.

So you really have to think about what compressor/s you use on each source and in what order you use them. If you like to EQ before you compress then you would be waisting your time spending hours tweeking your EQ, getting it just right then slapping a tube compressor on the vocal buss. Some of the warmth a compressor can add can be enough to bury a vocal back into the mix. (depending on the mix) If you are happy with the EQ but need more stability then an opto compressor (Rcomp) will compress without imarting a tonal change or adding distortion.
Try using a comp that colors before you reach for EQ to help achieve the tone you are after then use EQ to polish the sound.

Try to think of it as many do round here with running multiple EQ's. Sergical comps and coloring comps. In what order is up to you and your ear.

If you are un sure what style of compression your plugins are emulating,
RTFM. :Smokedev:

Great explanation!!! Thank you!!!

 

[LeSedna]

Yeah thank you