What to do with the master bus on a project

[selke61]

Okay, I've been getting a little better each day with recording, learning how to EQ all the instruments accordingly. (I use Cubase 5) Now my question is, while working on a project, is there anything you can do with the master bus to help the project before mastering? My low end gets a little sloppy at parts.

I heard sometimes slapping a limiter on there helps. I just set it to -2 on the input, and it keeps the song somewhat level, but I know a limiter is more used for squashing, or so I heard. So maybe that's why my songs come out all over the place and squashed. I looked around, and I found on Joey Sturgis' twitter that he said he uses a low end compressor set to a low ratio (2:1), but does he use it on his master bus? And what is a low end compressor? I'm asking a lot of questions. It's so hard to word everything haha. In the end, what can I do with my master bus? Any compressors, limiters, or even EQing I can do with it even though I like to leave all the EQing on all the tracks. I'm still a rookie and could use any help. So if anything I said was crazy, lead me in the right direction.

 

[DestroyTheColossus]

Without seeing the referenced post, the term "low end compressor" makes me think of a multiband compressor with all the bands bypassed except for the lowest. It would be used to tame some excess bass build-up before hitting a limiter.

The limiter trick you were referencing if I remember correctly was in regards to not clipping the master bus, but its much better to just mix at lower volumes to where that would not be an issue.

 

[timislegend]

so, this is what i have always done before mastering:

make sure the pre master doesn't go over -2db

in that case you don't need to apply a limiter... (ever).


then all mastering is done outboard; lavry d/a - 1073 hp/lp filters - massive passive eq - vari-mu limiter - lavry a/d (clipping)... then itb on the master fader; L1 - mbit dither.

it's not always the same for me though... depends on the project.



i am disturbed that you bolded the word right ...as there is no right or wrong way to do this.

 

[selke61]

so, this is what i have always done before mastering:

make sure the pre master doesn't go over -2db

in that case you don't need to apply a limiter... (ever).


then all mastering is done outboard; lavry d/a - 1073 hp/lp filters - massive passive eq - vari-mu limiter - lavry a/d (clipping)... then itb on the master fader; L1 - mbit dither.

it's not always the same for me though... depends on the project.


i am disturbed that you bolded the word right ...as there is no right or wrong way to do this.

yeah i dont know why i did that. i just thought what i said was so out of whack. i appreciate your input though. i know that every recording is different and its really a matter of personal taste. i just consider myself a good mixer, just when it comes to the final product, i smash the bounced down .wav with a limiter and its so squash and even distorted sounding, even when i give my self a -12 to -6 db headroom. so i figured maybe applying a limiter on the mixing projects master bus was the cause.

 

[Folkrav]

Well mastering is not only a matter of putting all that through a limiter. I personnaly mix THROUGH my mastering chain (well, I only use a slight master compressor with something like 3:1 ratio, and then make a SMALL make-up with limiter, really conservative settings). I'm getting used to this way of working, but that's one workflow like another. I only make all the master-EQ stuff AFTER I feel like the mix is somewhere close to where I want it to be. I master with referencing with other songs for the "overall" feel I want the song to get close to.

There are a lot of possible workflows in this matter.

 

[Fandus]

I've been experimenting with running all elements of a mix to their own busses eg. All guitars > bus. All drums > bus etc. And then mastering them all separately. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but it's something to try, it's all for fun

 

[selke61]

I master with referencing with other songs for the "overall" feel I want the song to get close to.

I do the exact same thing

 

[Folkrav]

I almost always squash my bass frequencies with pretty much but with low ratio to keep them tamed too. Multiband comp is your friend there. I figured out over time that uncontrolled bass jumping all over the mix is the number one cause of pumping when you apply the final make-up limiter.

 

[selke61]

I almost always squash my bass frequencies with pretty much but with low ratio to keep them tamed too. Multiband comp is your friend there. I figured out over time that uncontrolled bass jumping all over the mix is the number one cause of pumping when you apply the final make-up limiter.

That was my main issue with my final mixes was pumping. When I take the bass out, everything is fine. I always knew, even before I ever started recording that bass is one hell of a bumpy ride when recording. So what you are saying is, I should limit the bass a lot? What settings? The way Cubase's limiter is set up is the input and output and the release. I usually give my bass a 4.5 input and 500 release. What could be a better setting? And where do I place the multiband compressor? The master bus or the bass's bus? And do I bypass all the frequencies except the low end and what is the threshold and all that jazz set to? I really wanna get my low end figured out!!!

Oh, for anyone else reading this, I realized while mixing and having no limiter on the master output bus sounds wayyyy better, although it says it's clipping at 4.5db output, obviously, but it loses that annoying pumping sound. So should I, while mixing, have no limiter on and then set my master bus to a -12 to -6db headroom output before mastering? These are main problems! And I figured I'd ask them all!

 

[Folkrav]

My bass is pretty much slammed into multiple compression stages (sometimes I purely limit the shit out of it at the end), and I use a sidechain compressor from kick sometimes when I go to a bass heavy production. Give yourself some headroom before mastering stage, -12 to -6 is a good way to go. I use multiband compression in mastering process, mainly over the bass frequencies, to stop them from jumping around before it gets in the final limiter.