live guitar track treatment....

[Arsenu,]

ok guys, so recently i mixed a band for a live performance on the radio and got the tracks to do a mix for said tracks (16 ch. ADAT)

the band does this annoying alternative rock thing (remindes me of Placebo) and really does not require that "modern" metal sound but it still needs to sound BIG.

now, i already have BD, SNR, bass guitar and Vox panned center and since i only have 1 guitar track, which is already amped, i would really love to get some width with some standart L R panning.

so, what i'm trying to do is duplicate the track, delay one of the tracks 15-30ms
and EQ both sides deferrantly yet i'm not sure if tha'll break the 3 additional db you'll get when playing 2 identical signals.

any toughts on this?

 

[bryan_kilco]

From what I understand, duplication of a single performance won't really help. What about using a stereo widener on the track?

I used to copy/paste the same performance years ago and pan them hard L/R, but aside from EQing them each differently, I don't see how it'd be much different than have a single take down the middle.

 

[Arsenu,]

it would clear some space in the center, and sound wider.

hopefully

 

[Revson]

Send the guitar to a reverb/delay with really little feedback (kinda like just copying the track) and pan them opposite from each other. From there you should EQ the tracks drastically different from each other. That should help widen the stereo image. Or you could pull a Beatles trick and pan the drums to one side and everything else to the other. That could be interesting.

 

[Arsenu,]

it's radical that it even worked for them, i wouldn't imagine even trying it (even tough i would)

just finished tweaking the knobs. the end result is actually pretty good!
i did what i said: duplicated, delayed one track 20ms (which altered the stereo image completely!)
panned hard LR
than i bestowed a GTR overdrive and brightened one side, and gave the other a Wagner Sharp mkII and a darker EQ

i'll post the end result here when i get the artist's blessing

 

[Trevoire520]

When mixing for Radio you really have to think of mono compatibility for those who have poor reception, so I'd check how it's sounding in mono as doing stereo delays can result in some nasty cancellations.

 

[Arsenu,]

you misunderstood me man...

i already tracked them live when working as a soundman at the radio.
the tracks i'm mixing are the ones from the broadcast, recorded absolutely dry straight to an ADAT machine

 

[Trevoire520]

Ah I thought you meant you were mixing it to be played on radio, my mistake.

Something I have heard of doing for making a single guitar track sound stereo is to duplicate it and run each through a 31 band eq. On one track pull every odd slider down (1st, 3rd, 5th etc) and leave the rest flat, and then do the opposite (2nd, 4th, 6th etc) on the other track. Not done it myself but I reckon it could be worth a go.

 

[Arsenu,]

yeah i did something similar only not as wierd...
besides what really did the trick is the 20ms delay on one track

alright so here are some tips iv'e learned from this session, in order to make this thread useful:

- when tracking a live band where all the players are in one room, keep the vocalist as far away from the drums as possible.
- always double-mic the guitar, even if it means sacrificing a drum track for that.
- thank god for creating direct outputs in most modern bass amps!
- alternative rock is annoying

tough some of it may seem obvious, it's really easy to forget while setting up the session

 

[guitarguru777]

If you are a guitar player play a 2nd guitar track and be done with it

 

[egan.]

If they have one guitar mix it with one guitar. There isn't a rule that says you have to have both sides identical. I'd probably do a Haas effect thing like you are (delay one side by 15-20ms and run it a little quieter). I'd probably have the "main" guitar side be oposite the high hat (or whatever cymbal the drummer is on most of the time). You can also pan the bass a little opposite the guitar to keep some mix balance. I know a bunch of guys are going to want to run in and say "the bass has to center" but Andy Wallace pans his bass all of the time and he's better than any of us.

 

[guitarguru777]

Dont forget early Van Halen

 

[Loki Laufeyiarson]

You can also pan the bass a little opposite the guitar to keep some mix balance. I know a bunch of guys are going to want to run in and say "the bass has to center" but Andy Wallace pans his bass all of the time and he's better than any of us.

Greg Gordon does this as well.

You can split the bass signal in 2, one part only low frequencies, dead center and clean, other mid and high, get some distortion on it and pan it to the opposite site of the guitar. If you really want the low end to be dead center.

 

[Arsenu,]

so from what i understand, you all woke up on your creative side today?