Living with Nihilism

[zabu of nΩd]

"Nihilism (/ˈnaɪ.ᵻlɪzəm/ or /ˈniː.ᵻlɪzəm/; from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical doctrine that suggests the lack of belief in one or more reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."

I consider existential nihilism an undiagnosed disease of mine - slowly killing me, with no cure.

Anyone else struggle with this philosophy? Any ideas for countering, escaping, or unlearning it?

My current strategy is taking satisfaction in my job (which is a good job as far as they go), and in my free time distracting myself from the emptiness by any means - women, alcohol, music, outdoor activity, vacation / early retirement planning, etc. I'd like to get more into Zen or Taoism over time, but so far I haven't had the motivation.

 

[Baroque]

Yeah. I recommend Pretty much accepting it and doing whatever you want with the time you have left (within reasonable limits). realize that nothing really matters not even your own death. It's pretty powerful actually, removes any sense of fear.

Camus wrote there are 3 possible outcomes of the absurd (basically the epiphany of existential nihilism), accept it and live on despite it (for many this means becoming some form of atheist, accepting no meaning to life but living anyway for your own temporary worldly wants), suicide (since life has no meaning, why live and endure the hardships?), or spiritualism (believing there must be some meaning to life after all, it's just known by a higher power).

I suppose there is a 4th outcome of just struggling with it forever and never finding resolution. I definitely think the nonsuicide outcomes are quite common.

 

[Baroque]

Also check out Sartre - Being and Nothingness. Hexen wrote an album by the same name with lyrics very relevant to this.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

I just accept the fact that we're (sentient beings) all playing the same game, it's about joy/pleasure and pain/suffering. And as long as this fact exists there is value/meaning and objective nihilism can suck my cock. Try to be useful, don't worry about the things you can't control, and enjoy what you can without hurting anyone or anything else

 

[no country for old wainds]

i'm instinctively good at establishing the illusion of purpose in my day to day life - i'm wired in a way that allows me to get really excited about trivial shit like working on a music list or exploring a movie genre or following a sport or w/e even while understanding that it's trivial. most of the time i feel like i could happily do that nerdy shit 'til the day i die and it'd be a life well lived. that said, there are occasions when i yearn for something beyond that, which is where romantic companionship and family etc comes in for me i guess. for a lot of people (most people i know) it's their (usually shitty and banal) job, i can't relate to the majority of those people at all and they're often transparently convincing themselves that what they're doing is more significant than it actually is, but it's better than suicide i suppose.

 

[CiG]

You should struggle and cope with your life until the day that the great Wagyl swallows you and you slowly digest in it's stomach for eternity.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

You should struggle and cope with your life until the day that the great Wagyl swallows you and you slowly digest in it's stomach for eternity.

Until Jeff Hanneman descends to take you to that big mosh pit in the sky.

 

[arg]

Metal, alcohol and whores 'til death

Hope i die in my 50s before health goes to shit

 

[CiG]

Until Jeff Hanneman descends to take you to that big mosh pit in the sky.

 

[Einherjar86]

I remind myself that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. This is because value is something we produce, subjectively and collectively; and in that sense, it is most certainly real.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

I'm a few drinks in but totally understand. I think I'm often like old wainds where I get excited (or distracted) about new shit and challenges. But just as easily if you take the time to stop and think about it and sorta "realize" that none of it matters anyways it's like this never ending circle to think about in terms of morals, ethics and just whatever feeling you've ever felt (just thinking that they never mattered no matter how good or bad it felt) is just sad, honestly. But you know, even if it all doesn't matter things essentially matter to us within context and usually it's rather difficult for us as human beings to separate that.

Not sure if that makes sense but yeah I totally get this even if I'm too incoherent to explain better

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I remind myself that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. This is because value is something we produce, subjectively and collectively; and in that sense, it is most certainly real.

Very Nietzschean and existentialist approach to it all, I dig it.

 

[Dak]

Very Nietzschean and existentialist approach to it all, I dig it.

I was about to be all "oh hai Nietzsche" but you beat me too it.

There are levels, or at least different types, of disappointment that occur amongst people who happen to be able to step outside of their own perspective for a moment. Determining there's no afterlife/caring deity, that we will never be transcendently successful or famous (and even if we were, most of the people who ever have, do, or will live still wouldn't know or care about us), and at a more immediate/lower level - we may not even be moderately noteworthy to the people who have actually crossed paths with us - or that we may even care about.

I think a desire to be eternally important is what drives desires and beliefs about the afterlife for most people, and that your Trump et als don't put much stock in that and attempt to leave a permanent stamp on this planet. Of course, this planet will eventually be incinerated. Congratulations to the builders of the pyramids.

It's often spoken of almost derogatively, but a reframing of the "it could be worse" game is the "look how (relatively) great I have it". Now, this obviously requires a broad appreciation of the human condition, and throughout history, but these sorts of nihilistic thoughts are kind of limited to the people with that sort of awareness capability anyway. I'm at the point where my concerns are more limited to how will mankind shoot itself in the foot before I die (and how it will affect me) + how will it affect my posterity.

Edit: I also specifically said "caring" deity, because atheists really don't care whether or not there's some disinterested higher power, even if it happened to create the "stuff" for the material universe (assuming the universe is actually material. Of course we could all be "god dreams" ie holograms, or whatever). They are rejecting the engaged/caring deity(ies).

 

[Baroque]

I was about to be all "oh hai Nietzsche" but you beat me too it.

There are levels, or at least different types, of disappointment that occur amongst people who happen to be able to step outside of their own perspective for a moment. Determining there's no afterlife/caring deity, that we will never be transcendently successful or famous (and even if we were, most of the people who ever have, do, or will live still wouldn't know or care about us), and at a more immediate/lower level - we may not even be moderately noteworthy to the people who have actually crossed paths with us - or that we may even care about.

I think a desire to be eternally important is what drives desires and beliefs about the afterlife for most people, and that your Trump et als don't put much stock in that and attempt to leave a permanent stamp on this planet. Of course, this planet will eventually be incinerated. Congratulations to the builders of the pyramids.

It's often spoken of almost derogatively, but a reframing of the "it could be worse" game is the "look how (relatively) great I have it". Now, this obviously requires a broad appreciation of the human condition, and throughout history, but these sorts of nihilistic thoughts are kind of limited to the people with that sort of awareness capability anyway. I'm at the point where my concerns are more limited to how will mankind shoot itself in the foot before I die (and how it will affect me) + how will it affect my posterity.

Very true, especially the bolded.

There's also another devastating disappointment, even if you just spread your genes around like mad and try to live through your kids: the proportion of following generations that carry your genes is 1/2^n, so each generation carries exponentially fewer of your genes, your great great great great grandkids are only 1% you, 99% other people.

 

[Dak]

Very true, especially the bolded.

There's also another devastating disappointment, even if you just spread your genes around like mad and try to live through your kids: the proportion of following generations that carry your genes is 1/2^n, so each generation carries exponentially fewer of your genes, until very quickly your great great great great grandkids are only 1% you, 99% other people.

And of course on that note there's the stat floating around that only 20% of men who have ever lived still have their genes floating around at all, whereas for women it's nearly the opposite. I never bothered to determine the veracity of that stat, but I imagine it's probably truer than it is false. Sperm is cheap and women love a winner.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

I remind myself that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. This is because value is something we produce, subjectively and collectively; and in that sense, it is most certainly real.

I value not being mercilessly and brutally tortured. I'm sure you and everyone else here does too. is this not objective? my instinct not to feel pain precedes my value but it also is essential in creating that value, can my biological instinct be a sort of value system? a system that gives me purpose and meaning?

 

[Dak]

I value not being mercilessly and brutally tortured. I'm sure you and everyone else here does too. is this not objective? my instinct not to feel pain precedes my value but it also is essential in creating that value, can my biological instinct be a sort of value system? a system that gives me purpose and meaning?

The I, and valuation, make it subjective by definition.

 

[Baroque]

Yeah this is not to say live without morals. Social values may be subjective but absolutely necessary still even if you just want to achieve personal goals and gains for fun. It's just an outlook, use them to your advantage instead of being a part of them mindlessly.

 

[Dak]

Yeah this is not to say live without morals. Social values may be subjective but absolutely necessary still even if you just want to achieve personal goals and gains for fun. It's just an outlook, use them to your advantage instead of being a part of them mindlessly.

Yeah, the entire devaluation of subjectivity is as problematic as the supreme elevation of it. It's useful and yes even necessary for us in some aspects. This is close to the same response that I have towards charges of "such and such is merely a "construction". Well sure. And? We construct many a thing, both material and immaterial. That tells you little to nothing about it other than that it isn't "not constructed". It's basically another form of the "natural fallacy" in how it is used.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

The I, and valuation, make it subjective by definition.

true, and the "We" makes it collective. um, what if we call "I" and "We" Being and say isn't Being enough to make pain an objective thingy. ok I'm just being silly now bye