Living with Nihilism

[Lunella]

+ starches and a bit of cheese.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

^

 

[Onder]

I'm sorry to derail this thread to fusilli and penne. I feel like I should get it back on track so yeah, life is meaningless shit and we're all going to die. I don't really have any advice either just hide somewhere and cry or something.

 

[CiG]

Drink beer (slurp it or kill yourself, no middle ground), eat good ass home cooked food, hang out in nature as often as possible, pwn n00bs on vidya to make up for your shitty low self-esteem, it's really not that hard to look on the bright side of even the crummiest existence.

 

[mutantllama]

Existence is a joke so step back and laugh at all the nonsense we are constantly confronted with.

 

[no country for old wainds]

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

I've found that blacking out almost every night of the week while watching Omar from The Wire compilations on Youtube has worked wonders for curtailing the existential puzzle that is logically embracing nihilism.

 

[Nephilim96]

There's only two things that matter, having as much fun as you can, and trying to help other people so they can enjoy life as much as possible, too.

Don't be somebody, or a part of something (ie extremist groups) that ruins it for others, and you're good.

 

[Einherjar86]

Gloomy fucking Grim, good god.

 

[The Butt]

Smoke beers hail Satan.

Drink a thousand beers.

 

[Cythraul]

Any ideas for countering, escaping, or unlearning it?

Read Aquinas? Go to church?

I remind myself that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. This is because value is something we produce, subjectively and collectively; and in that sense, it is most certainly real.

I've never really understood this sort of existentialist idea. It seems to make sense at first glance, but then when I think about it for a minute, it strikes me as unintelligible.

In what sense does one create value subjectively? Does creating value subjectively just amount to some individual valuing something or other? Because if it does, then that is pretty trivial. And, actually, it doesn't look like an act of creating anything, anyway, at least not anything that has any obvious normative pull on anybody. On the other hand, if some act of the mind is capable of endowing things with value in a sense that has genuine normative weight, why is it not the case that there just was value out in the natural order to begin with? What is so special about the mind that genuine value should be dependent on it? I take it that some existentialist thinkers are concerned with avoiding outright nihilism with all this talk of creating value or whatever, but that project seems to me to be either trivial or quixotic given their basic assumptions.

Anyway, I think the only real way to overcome existential and moral nihilism philosophically is to reject some key propositions of the Enlightenment, propositions which have never been proven anyway. But Enlightenment thought is at this point so entrenched in most people's minds that it is almost like the air we breathe. We don't even notice it, and various types of nihilism seem unavoidable as a result.

 

[Draehl]

This came to mind

 

[The Ozzman]

I can get you a toe

 

[Einherjar86]

In what sense does one create value subjectively? Does creating value subjectively just amount to some individual valuing something or other? Because if it does, then that is pretty trivial. And, actually, it doesn't look like an act of creating anything, anyway, at least not anything that has any obvious normative pull on anybody. On the other hand, if some act of the mind is capable of endowing things with value in a sense that has genuine normative weight, why is it not the case that there just was value out in the natural order to begin with? What is so special about the mind that genuine value should be dependent on it? I take it that some existentialist thinkers are concerned with avoiding outright nihilism with all this talk of creating value or whatever, but that project seems to me to be either trivial or quixotic given their basic assumptions.

I think it's best to respond by first making some clarifications on my part.

First, I don't think that value exists in the "natural order," so that's not what I mean. I also agree completely that attributing value to subjective experience is trivial, and doesn't really amount to creation since one's personal values can change, especially if we're talking about a subject sans any kind of community or social context.

So, this is why I think value is part a subjective and collective expression. I don't think it makes sense to talk about value as an effect of a single subject in the wild (i.e. private values), the same way it doesn't make sense to talk about a private language. I think that value is a historical and social phenomenon that emerges out of complex social structures as more and more people cohere around various institutions, communities, interests, etc. So, I would say that value can't be reduced entirely to subjective experience, but nor can it be reduced to collective experience.

In recent decades it's become more acceptable to treat human social systems and institutions in terms of evolutionary theory, introducing concepts such as circular causality, synergism, and autopoiesis. I think we can treat value, in an abstract sense, as a part of these feedback circuits. In a subjective sense, values are emerging and vanishing all the time; but as social bodies interact with one another, certain values achieve longevity, and social evolution coheres around them. When this happens, these values are fed back ("input") into the social body in the form of various material institutions, and these institutions assist in the futurity of the values they embody.

Anyway, I think the only real way to overcome existential and moral nihilism philosophically is to reject some key propositions of the Enlightenment, propositions which have never been proven anyway. But Enlightenment thought is at this point so entrenched in most people's minds that it is almost like the air we breathe. We don't even notice it, and various types of nihilism seem unavoidable as a result.

I would agree with this.

 

[Cythraul]

First, I don't think that value exists in the "natural order," so that's not what I mean.

Right, I know. I mentioned it as a contrast to the position you seem to hold.

I don't think it makes sense to talk about value as an effect of a single subject in the wild (i.e. private values), the same way it doesn't make sense to talk about a private language. I think that value is a historical and social phenomenon that emerges out of complex social structures as more and more people cohere around various institutions, communities, interests, etc. So, I would say that value can't be reduced entirely to subjective experience, but nor can it be reduced to collective experience.

Okay. I had the "private language" consideration in the back of my mind when I responded to you, and I think when I mentioned normativity I was getting at something like that objection.

 

[CF87]

^

Enough is right, so fucking cut it out.

 

[CF87]

Ancient Aliens built this apartment complex and the one I am moving into soon,etc.. There's no way these places were built by man.