Loomis Plains Production

Quad-tracked throughout. The intro riff of "Escape Velocity" is two tracks the whole time, and two more kick in on the right after the drum fill. The "Tragedy and Harmony" intro is the same deal, two in the left ear, and two more every time the other side kicks in. I think you're right, the definition you can hear in the more "naked" spots just isn't as apparent when there's other elements in the mix. Glad you like the tones though! Weren't you the one who was originally saying that the rhythms were way too quiet, based on the sampler video on YouTube a few weeks ago? Do you still feel that way?
 
Aaron Smith said:
Quad-tracked throughout. The intro riff of "Escape Velocity" is two tracks the whole time, and two more kick in on the right after the drum fill. The "Tragedy and Harmony" intro is the same deal, two in the left ear, and two more every time the other side kicks in. I think you're right, the definition you can hear in the more "naked" spots just isn't as apparent when there's other elements in the mix. Glad you like the tones though! Weren't you the one who was originally saying that the rhythms were way too quiet, based on the sampler video on YouTube a few weeks ago? Do you still feel that way?
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Wow quad-tracked all the way ? I knew Jeff was tight but jeez this is insane... Really sounds clear like dual-tracked stuff !

I've only listened to the album twice so far, and while i would still feel like the rythms are a tad too quiet, i think that has to do with the fact that there is more stuff (lead guitars, drums, vocals, bass...) going on the same time in this album than on the previous solo record where it sounded more like massive rythm guitars with some leads here and there, and the rest of the mix built around it. This time it sounds more like a band so to speak, with the rythm guitars ending up less proeminent, which makes sense.
 
Djabthrash said:
This time it sounds more like a band so to speak, with the rythm guitars ending up less proeminent, which makes sense.
Click to expand...

Yeah I actually really like the mix, and I like that the rhythms aren't tearing my face off.

Overall I think it sounds fantastic. There's this airy-ness to the whole thing that I really did. The room tone on the drums is really really great, and incredibly clear for such dense music.

Really great work all around.
 
Ah yeah, just remembered that I've been hanging on to this little nugget until the album was actually released for people to listen and examine in full-quality. Jens' mastering chain:

The chain is Pro Tools with slightly Sonnox Limiter, Brainworks Digital EQ and sometimes Flux Epure. Forsell MADA DA in to an SSL comp, to a Thermionic Culture Phoenix without comp for flavor, in to a Burl AD for clipping. Mbit+ dither.
Click to expand...

I also just had to ask, "Curious, how hard were you hitting the SSL comp? I would expect just a few dB at most, but crazier things have been professionally done before!", and he replied:

Just so it's barely moving! Half a dB at most on this material, and pretty long attack.
Click to expand...

At some point I might post a little pre/post mastering comparison for a piece of material from this album, sort of like I did with the 7H7E stuff...the same clip as a raw mix, and then after Jens worked his magic, if you guys would find that interesting. It's a slightly more noticeable difference this time around than the 7H7E material was, mostly in that Jens used no compression with 7H7E, while on "Plains..." he used the SSL comp. He brought out a bit more punch and aggressiveness in the drums by doing so, and I pretty much determined instantaneously upon listening for the first time that I loved the choice he made.
 
Hey Aaron, out of curiosity, did you use any saturation plug-ins like VCC, Satson etc. here or is it straight ITB?

Hoping to spark up some conversation here, as I don't believe my adopting VCC (namely the 4k model) has actually improved the sound of my mixes.
 
I have VCC and I've been using it on projects ever since I bought it. I had to fire up a session to remember exactly what I did—I had Brit 4k on the master bus, RC Tube on the bass guitar bus (DI + DI duplicate processed as an amp tone), and US A on the rhythm guitar bus. Can I say with 100% certainty that VCC has made a significant difference to my mixes, or point out precisely what differences it has made? No, but is it possible that building a mix into console saturation makes it easier to achieve clearer separation between different elements, or to get different elements working together more naturally? Definitely. I don't have any experience at all actually mixing recordings on an analog console, so without that background, I don't expect that I'll ever fully appreciate what VCC does, but I do believe that the science and thought behind it is meaningful, and that it can help me reach the end point (a better mix), even if it there isn't an obvious color it imparts on every source...and some of the consoles do of course have some perceptible coloration, the most apparent being the low end fatness from the Brit N. I will say though, my best mixes have all been post-VCC purchase, and they have all come together fairly easily. Some of that is probably the fact that I'm just always improving at mixing, but VCC is probably a factor as well.

Also...as I think everyone knows, the key is in actually mixing into it, and making EQ/compression decisions based on how the sources sound and interact with one another with VCC already applied. Sticking VCC on different things at the very end of mixing probably isn't going to do any good, and might just actually make things worse.
 
Low-end is more than fine on my side (focal cms65, 50€ sennheiser earbuds, cheap trusted hifi sony headset).

The production is awesome, i love the drums tone among others (and the playing too ! Dirk FTW !).

The chorus from the power ballad song ("chosen time") has been stuck in my head in the past couple of days :)

EDIT : i love "continuum drift" also (the beginning especially, before it gets all shreddy and stuff)... Reminds me of everything i loved about Loomis/Nevermore in the first place, which was the moody/mellowy/heavy stuff (love those (jazzy ?) clean guitars btw), a la "believe in nothing" on the DHIADW album (best solo ever IMO), and the intro of "This Godless Endeavor" on TGE, and some parts on the "cashmere shiv" song on the first solo album. Otherwise, the super-shred stuff is the best you can find out there, but it gets old to me pretty fast.
 
Thanks for the confirmation, Aaron. There were a few characteristics within the mix which made me think you might've used something like VCC.

I think what they've done is quite admirable. They seem like very authentic recreations of the sound of the consoles, unlike the Nebula programs which I've been using for a few years (which have their own pros and cons). Unfortunately I came to realize that most of the least favourite characteristics of my favourite 4k mixes came from the sound of the channels. I agree that getting the mix together with tools like this is quicker... at least to that 90% mark. Getting it to 100% actually becomes harder for me, as I start to fight the smearing and tubbyness that the consoles impart. I have a very particular way of tackling low-end, and the sound of these makes it quite hard to achieve what I'd consider a 'satisfactory' result. I think they're cool tools if you want to mix quick, and are happy to get something sounding 'good enough', and consider the smearing that the consoles add a bit of extra 'vibe'. Makes highly separated, 'perfect' mixes much more difficult to achieve however.
 
I have only listened to the youtube clips of this new album and I find the bass very distracting and loud but well it sounds good so I have no complains about that, my only complain is the rhythm guitars being too quite, I was hoping to hear the godlike lows of the schecter loomis like in TGE (again with tge :rolleyes:) in your face rhythm guitars. This is my criticism, I still enjoy very much the production and music. I listen music and mix with my logitech x-230 with a little gain in the subwoofer.
 
Djabthrash said:
Wow quad-tracked all the way ? I knew Jeff was tight but jeez this is insane... Really sounds clear like dual-tracked stuff !

I've only listened to the album twice so far, and while i would still feel like the rythms are a tad too quiet, i think that has to do with the fact that there is more stuff (lead guitars, drums, vocals, bass...) going on the same time in this album than on the previous solo record where it sounded more like massive rythm guitars with some leads here and there, and the rest of the mix built around it. This time it sounds more like a band so to speak, with the rythm guitars ending up less proeminent, which makes sense.
Click to expand...

@Aaron : sorry but just to be sure : on the "Tragedy and harmony" intro, when only the left guitar is playing... is this really two guitar tracks for the left guitar or just one ?
 
My thoughts:

I like the sound and vibe of the more natural drums. They sound quite good. The lead guitar tone is just awesome... I mean VERY good. Easily one of my favorite lead tones on a metal album of recent memory. I'm assuming this is the red channel on the 5150, right? As for the rhythm guitars, they just aren't aggressive enough for my tastes. Too quiet, too smooth... I know I'd much prefer less bass overall with more upfront, heavy hitting rhythm guitars. I'm pretty positive I would have preferred the rhythms being boosted too... You can really hear the extra aggression and energy the boost adds to the lead guitars. Then again, I always tend to like really razor-sharp rhythm tones with a lot of impact and clarity, and obviously the lead guitars are much more important than the rhythm guitars on this album. It's a good thing the leads sound awesome! Overall, the production/mix is much better sounding than Zero Order Phase!

Musically, I'm not too sure what I think... some songs are awesome, but some of them don't do much for me. The album as a whole isn't blowing me away like Zero Order Phase did the first time I heard it, despite the much better sounding production... Maybe, it just needs to grow on me. I don't know. I'm still psyched to see Jeff play these songs w/ Periphery, Protest The Hero, and The Safety Fire in Orlando on Tuesday though!

Does anybody know if Jeff has been coming out during Periphery's set to play the solo in Racecar? I'm hoping I get to see that.
 
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