Low end Power Bass guitar and kick drum

[DenisN]

Hi guys,

The low end is creating a lot of trouble for me, as it is for all noobs I suppose.I am trying to get the bass and kick to sit well together and this
is what I have done in my mix with regards to the low end:

Bass guitar:
HPF on 30 HZ
Copmressor- (8:1) with a 10db gain reduction
HPF on 30 Hz
Boost on 134Hz
Cut down the 200-300 Hz
Added slightly Rbass (just a little bit) on 134Hz

Boost 1kHz range
HPF:30 Hz
Kick- boost around 80 Hz , deep cut in the middle and boosted around 2,5 Khz

In this way I get the kick to sound trough the low frequencies. It's not yet what I'm looking for but it sounds ok.

But from what I've read on this forum the 'metal' approach is to have a narrow boost on the base in the 60Hz region.
1 -If I doo this, should I HP the kick to about 80Hz or notch it and 60 Hz?

2- also I would like to know if you guys emphasize the 120-130Hz region in this approach as well? (boosting it)
As far as I know that region will result in a good bass presence even on small speakers.

if you have any suggetions on the eq feel free to comment.

TNX

 

[sawtooth]

Firstly it's high pass filter not low pass when cutting lows. Try finding the thump frequency on the kick, usually around 60-75hz (using a frequency analyzer can help) and boost by 3db then cut by the same frequency on the bass guitar.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Also, when you find that thump in the kick drum, you can try HPing the bass right at that freq or a little bit higher instead of just making a cut there. Depends on how much bass you want in there but its another approach

If you don't do that, at least make sure HP on the kick somewhere closer to 50 cause you really don't need all that junk under it

and to help your terminology as The Tooth mentioned, High Pass = everything higher will pass. Or just call it a low cut

 

[emerica167852]

Also, the key is to get your bass and kick tight as fuhh. its crazy how much power can come from just tight playing.

Considering you called yourself a noob i figured your playing is less than perfect, may be wrong.

 

[CharlesMonroe1989]

You can send the kick signal to the trigger input of a compressor on the bassguitar. Everytime a kickhit comes the bass gets a bit more compressed so the kick has more air in the mix.

take some time to set release and attack right. Depends on the number of bd hits in the song. But its worth it

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Sidechain compression is your friend. There is a tutorial on it it this sub-forum stickies(production tips).

Oh and personal preference, I never boost the 130-200 area on kicks or bass, I don't scoop them usually either. Boosting that area is a real quick and sure way to get muddy and a buildup of upper low end.

 

[DenisN]

Firstly it's high pass filter not low pass when cutting lows. Try finding the thump frequency on the kick, usually around 60-75hz (using a frequency analyzer can help) and boost by 3db then cut by the same frequency on the bass guitar.

and to help your terminology as The Tooth mentioned, High Pass = everything higher will pass. Or just call it a low cut

Tnx for the corrections! I corrected it in the initial post.

Also, when you find that thump in the kick drum, you can try HPing the bass right at that freq or a little bit higher instead of just making a cut there. Depends on how much bass you want in there but its another approach
If you don't do that, at least make sure HP on the kick somewhere closer to 50 cause you really don't need all that junk under it

Ok, did this last night and it really didn't make a difference to the kick sound, meaning it just removed the junk i guess . Tnx for the info, I was not sure if I should cut it or not.

Also, the key is to get your bass and kick tight as fuhh. its crazy how much power can come from just tight playing.

Considering you called yourself a noob i figured your playing is less than perfect, may be wrong.

I'm not that bad ... I think ...not Billy sheanan but ..hehe..kidding.
I will keep it in mind!

You can send the kick signal to the trigger input of a compressor on the bassguitar. Everytime a kickhit comes the bass gets a bit more compressed so the kick has more air in the mix.

take some time to set release and attack right. Depends on the number of bd hits in the song. But its worth it

Sidechain compression is your friend. There is a tutorial on it it this sub-forum stickies(production tips)..

I saw some of this instructionals on youtube and to me it sounded that this is more for 'pop/dance' music. I have not tried it but i think that this brings somekind of 'pumping' into the mix. The song ''move like jagger'' has this type of compression i think. I don't know how much it is applicabel for metal.
Perhaps I misunderstood?

Oh and personal preference, I never boost the 130-200 area on kicks or bass, I don't scoop them usually either. Boosting that area is a real quick and sure way to get muddy and a buildup of upper low end.

Ok. will keep it in mind when treating it. I just have a feeling that it really makes a difference when you boost it a littel bit because it brings more depth precence on small speakers.

What do you guys think of Rbass?

 

[TheWinterSnow]

I saw some of this instructionals on youtube and to me it sounded that this is more for 'pop/dance' music. I have not tried it but i think that this brings somekind of 'pumping' into the mix. The song ''move like jagger'' has this type of compression i think. I don't know how much it is applicabel for metal.
Perhaps I misunderstood?

In dance and pop music the kick is being used to sidechain everything that is not the kick, in metal we use sidechain to compress just the bass. It won't make a pumping sound and under lighter settings, you will never notice the bass ducking down on each kick, it just prevents the kick and bass transients from building up creating too much low end energy. Great example in metal is the Black Album.

Ok. will keep it in mind when treating it. I just have a feeling that it really makes a difference when you boost it a littel bit because it brings more depth precence on small speakers.

What do you guys think of Rbass?

A problem with small speakers. You are better off using reference mixes to see how they sound on your setup. If they don't have that much in that area then don't add it to your mixes/instruments, because all you are doing is making it sound better on your speakers, but ruining it for most other systems.

And as for Rbass, haven't found much use for it unless a source is lacking bass, even then I would rather reach for an eq. It can be good for bass guitar or floor toms, but other than that, I would try to stay away from it, that is just me though. Regardless, because it is obvious that you are new to mixing, I question if you legally purchased Rbass or any other Waves plugins you may have. Either way, I suggest that you ditch it and go back to the basics, develop basic skills first before moving on to more advanced techniques.

 

[DenisN]

In dance and pop music the kick is being used to sidechain everything that is not the kick, in metal we use sidechain to compress just the bass. It won't make a pumping sound and under lighter settings, you will never notice the bass ducking down on each kick, it just prevents the kick and bass transients from building up creating too much low end energy. Great example in metal is the Black Album.



A problem with small speakers. You are better off using reference mixes to see how they sound on your setup. If they don't have that much in that area then don't add it to your mixes/instruments, because all you are doing is making it sound better on your speakers, but ruining it for most other systems.

And as for Rbass, haven't found much use for it unless a source is lacking bass, even then I would rather reach for an eq. It can be good for bass guitar or floor toms, but other than that, I would try to stay away from it, that is just me though. Regardless, because it is obvious that you are new to mixing, I question if you legally purchased Rbass or any other Waves plugins you may have. Either way, I suggest that you ditch it and go back to the basics, develop basic skills first before moving on to more advanced techniques.

hey TheWinterSnow,

tnx for the input man and clearing up the sidechain compression use. I will definetly try it out. I tried your advice with refence mixex and you were right. Fattening it too much at 120Hz gave a much more muddier sound than professional mixes had. I lowered it and threw out the Rbass and the things sounds more natural now.