lucifer (conductor for the metal assemble)
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Ultimate_Symphony
Rusted Angel
- Jul 18, 2002
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At one time metal seemed more about the struggle between good and evil. Sometimes evil or the devil was used symbolically refering to the powers that be, the users of people. Depends on the bands and subgenre of metal I suppose. Today I dont know what half the shit is about but I cant listen to it anyhow, its garbage to me.
Einherjar86
Active Member
A large theme of black metal is rebelling against centuries of Christian oppression. The movement eschews modern Christian values and instead maintains and practices ancient pagan beliefs and rituals. Many black metal artists are fervently anti-Christian because they see the religion as having destroyed their ancestors' primary belief system. They wish to separate themselves from Christianity, and so they seek a connection with pre-Christian spiritual ideals (the female goddess, paganism, nature spirits, Pan, magic, Asatru, etc.).
Janga666
Infamous Butcher
I think the evil in metal is basically part of the show. Metal is big and grandiose(sp??) and most of the artists use imagery of evil because it fits with the music they make.
Of course there are some bands that see themselves as truly evil, but I think for the most part its just for show.
Of course there are some bands that see themselves as truly evil, but I think for the most part its just for show.
Janga666
Infamous Butcher
These ideals and anti-Christian ideologies are also becoming more prevailant outside of the metal community.
Yeah... I'd rather be oppressed by Pan and a female "goddess".... 
or some wack job attention whore ranting in the night like a blithering idjut... that would be my "vengence" for loosing my intellegent ancestors primitive primary belief system... Im so fucking pissed off I think I will go burn some churches, sacrifice babys... whatever... I just want to kill something .... 
or some wack job attention whore ranting in the night like a blithering idjut... that would be my "vengence" for loosing my intellegent ancestors primitive primary belief system... Im so fucking pissed off I think I will go burn some churches, sacrifice babys... whatever... I just want to kill something ....
Einherjar86
Active Member
Yeah... I'd rather be oppressed by Pan and a female "goddess"....
It's unfortunate that you're so narrow-minded that you can't even begin to understand why these people feel the way they do. You resort to sarcastic attempts at undermining their spiritual beliefs because you see them as juvenile. You don't have the mental capacity to understand the isolation and deprivation that they feel because you can't wrap your head around the fact that things like ancestral heritage and belief systems actually mean something to some people. You refuse to place yourself in their shoes, and thus your intellectualism suffers. It's no wonder you think dogs are smarter than humans. Since all you have to compare them to is yourself they must seem like geniuses.
speaking of dumb ass posts....... ^ wheres your counterpoint, wheres your proof, where did I say "dogs are smarter than humans" (direct quotes please) ? while I question the application and hypocracy of human "intelligence" I never said dogs are "smarter".
yes I see them as juvenile, "isolation and deprivation"... give me a break. I highly doubt anyone grown up in the past 3 decades has been "repressed" by any church or has a reason to be pissed off about anything.
I question any "belief" system that worships idols or has silly little rituals. Perhaps my self assurance threatens you so you feel you decide Im "stupid"... laughs on you.
I did watch a cute little program of a group of people in England or Ireland that hikes to a camp and stayed for a long while, without cleaning themselves, painted their faces, and did various pagan rituals as a means of "getting in touch with themselves"... damndest thing is I do that everyday, without the face paint. without the rituals and I take a shower everynight. Yet I guess I must sit and wonder what me... with my low mental capacity... is missing out on....... :zombie:
get a grip
Einherjar86
Active Member
You really treat certain cultures unfairly. You have no idea what they've gone through, and you won't even attempt to place yourself in their shoes. It's too bad, because you could learn a great deal about how other people think and behave. Anything foreign frightens and confuses you. The people who believe this way don't want to hurt you. They don't want to kill you, and in all those church burnings they never once killed anyone (I don't believe; if I'm incorrect, please tell me so). They're protesting the annihilation of their ancestors' religion. It has to do with identity. Most people have a yearning to connect with the ideals and beliefs of their forefathers, or in some cases a desire to break away from those beliefs. Identity is a huge factor.
I am connected to the ideals and beliefs of my forefathers. Should I go burn Churches because Im Celtic ? Should I go burn the Church I went to every Sunday with my Grandmother for her sake, I hated every minute of it, except being with my Grandmother, I hated the woman preacher who was so miserable and did nothing but preach that we were sinners, should I go burn that Church, should I run around all pissed off, should I change my musical style to some obsurd vocal style and write hate lyrics, sacrifice lyrics ? No I rather think not, I think I would be lowering my dignity, I would be ashamed of who I was if I showed that kind of weakness, immaturity and attention whoring. I'm also sure as many Englishmen that I have Roman blood in me too, should I be pissed because we no longer have the Roman idols... or the Greek. I mean WTF, I thought man outgrew all these ignorances. Now today we have children in protest over something they knew nothing about, nothing they felt, nothing that effected them what so ever. I have no desire to "learn" how black metal people think, I have no desire to learn about Paganism, a few points of interest... well fine but why try to re-establish some bogus belief ? and why do so in "anger" ? We had a small group of kids around here in the early 90's make themselves some kind of "cult", they were having themselves some fun spreading around a rumor that they were going to sacrifice the first blue eyed blond haired baby they could find, they visted "the witches grave" and had their little rituals, such a joke, nothing but bored children having some kind of identity crisis and seeking attention. Sorry but to me that is totally pathetic, its the same dysfunctional brain wave that makes kids destroy grave yards, walk down the streets and smash cars, or parked school busses, whatever, theres something in the news regularly. Immaturity, weakness and dysfunction at it best example.
Janga666
Infamous Butcher
What about people who think a belief in Christianity is ignorance?
For one thing, it's not just children. There are adults who have the same beliefs, and how do you know or understand what these people know about or how they feel? I think you are the ignorant one, because you obviously have your mind made up about this issue without finding out anything about it.
No sorry, not "ignorant", I do have my mind made up about worshipping idols, rituals or any such nonsence. I believe in the power of the human spirit that lives in most of us, but obviously not others. I have no problem mocking those that need some fucking belief, some fucking club, some idiotic "rebellion" of the little things, some form of safety in numbers to feel important or confident about themselves. I stand alone with pride on my own two feet and see the world and life for what it is, nothing more. I respect "culture" but not in the form of idol worshipping... and yes this includes "Christianity" "Devil worship" or anything else. As I said get a grip, we have evolved in our understanding of reality as well, reverting to "pagan" beliefs is a giant step back toward the cave and as per the meaning of my first post is as rediculous as belief of "God".
I doubt it was an "annihilation" of their ancestors religion, I rather think it was a changing of how people viewed the world, no differently as the belief of ONE god replaced the Greek belief that there were many. THe Romans themselves eventually adopted this belief. These beliefs spred in the more primitive times of fear and confusion as to what the meaning of life was. You always seem to make it sound like it held people hostage, repressed them and abused them, not that Im saying "the church" in various moments did not have its dark side, like any other belief... which simply stems from power hungry human greed, but for commoners I believe Christianity sped through word of mouth or teachings and at one time sounded good enough for most. Now today we can see even further beyond this.
As far as I know one of the most "adored" black metal figures is in jail for killing a homosexual and then his own comrade. Then if Im correct some of the Churches burned were old Pagan churchs to begin with... so with that I say my point about certain behavior is well proven...
Einherjar86
Active Member
No one is saying we should all adopt pagan beliefs. All I'm saying is that it's important to understand where people are coming from. You refuse to do that. You choose to immediately use the term "ignorance" to describe any such action.
You think that proves your point; the fact that originally pagan churches have been converted into Christian monasteries? razor, they burned them because they usurped what was once ancient pagan territory. Christianity allowed no monuments to exist in memory of the ancient belief systems. Everything was converted; nothing was allowed to remain. While Christianity did spread by word of mouth, it also spread by conquest. Many pagan ritual sites were forcibly converted into Christian places of worship.
I doubt that these people would be so angry about what Christianity has done if it simply had allowed some of their ancestors to continue practicing their beliefs (i.e. let people choose to convert). But in many places it didn't; it forced the native populations to convert. Conversion usually started with kings, and kings would then force Christianity upon the rural population. If those who spread Christianity had simply said "here's this new religion, take it or leave it," we would still have monuments of history and remnants of ancient beliefs today. But we don't, and that's because of Christianity's influence.
OK, first to get back on track. You said "A large theme of black metal is rebelling against centuries of Christian oppression." I question the oppression but more importantly made the satirical statement "Yeah... I'd rather be oppressed by Pan and a female "goddess".... or some wack job attention whore ranting in the night like a blithering idjut... that would be my "vengence" for loosing my intellegent ancestors primitive primary belief system... Im so fucking pissed off I think I will go burn some churches, sacrifice babys... whatever... I just want to kill something ...." much of which I would say about holy rollers and any other ritual nonsence.... rattlesnake handling, Jews not taking baths, wailing at the wailing wall, whatever, hope you get the point. Non the less with "black metal" we have a bunch of youngsters, supposedly pissed off about something that happened centuries ago, reminds me of the black cry for excuses today "we were slaves"... well no shit, you were slaves in Africa and sold to traders by the tribe that enslaved you, sorry but today, its no excuse to be pissed off or just plain friggin lazy and disrespectful. With some of this Pagan stuff, is there not some train of thought to practice sacrifice ? Sorry but doesnt this seem rather obsurd today ? To think that killing something is going to change the tides of ones life ? Or in the case of music, placing yourself as some form of satan worship... is it not exactly as Janga indicated... some sort of act, thereby making it what I prefer to call attention whoring... "oh, look at me... Im so "sick" "
Whatever, either way I find all these practices to be laughable and worthy of a good ass bustin, more so when someone wants to place a little tear or anger to it and say... you did this 300 years ago. Perhaps Im to American, where freedom of religion was practiced, and realize that most of the country was settled by decendents of the Celts, Anglos and Saxons... that for some reason were happily.... Christian... where by your oppression claim would make one wonder why they didnt come here to practice "Paganism". Black metal reminds me of college students having toga parties only I dont think they thought they would live a life of Roman worship even after the party was over.
Whatever, either way I find all these practices to be laughable and worthy of a good ass bustin, more so when someone wants to place a little tear or anger to it and say... you did this 300 years ago. Perhaps Im to American, where freedom of religion was practiced, and realize that most of the country was settled by decendents of the Celts, Anglos and Saxons... that for some reason were happily.... Christian... where by your oppression claim would make one wonder why they didnt come here to practice "Paganism". Black metal reminds me of college students having toga parties only I dont think they thought they would live a life of Roman worship even after the party was over.
SouthernTrendkill
Super Normie
- Aug 22, 2007
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For me personally, embracing Satan is a symbol for fierce individuality, throwing down the shackles of tadition. Some would say "But isn't embracing Satan a fad in itself, aren't you just replacing one oppressive ideology with another?" No. People embracing Satan don't believe the same things, and they don't seek to do so. No matter how many advocates of the symbolic Satan are out there, they will never outnumber the vast majority which believes in upholding traditional values.
I'm comforted by metal's anti-social and criminal aspects. Most music is so... obsessed with the group mentality. Even hardcore rap (which advocates crime, drug use and mysogyny) places an almighty importance on the group, the crew, depending on others. And even hardcore punk (which has anti-social icons like GG Allin) often focuses on the beauty of the group, hanging out with your buddies causing trouble and so forth. What's a loner like me to do? Metal is the only haven away from that stuff that I can find in the music world. While there is metal that promotes traditional group values, that is in the minority. Even metal bands that discuss group experiences often curse them and dissapprove. My only complaint would be that metal more often deals with subjects that simply have no relation to social experiences, like war and slaughter, rather than promoting anti-social values. But it's all good.
I'm comforted by metal's anti-social and criminal aspects. Most music is so... obsessed with the group mentality. Even hardcore rap (which advocates crime, drug use and mysogyny) places an almighty importance on the group, the crew, depending on others. And even hardcore punk (which has anti-social icons like GG Allin) often focuses on the beauty of the group, hanging out with your buddies causing trouble and so forth. What's a loner like me to do? Metal is the only haven away from that stuff that I can find in the music world. While there is metal that promotes traditional group values, that is in the minority. Even metal bands that discuss group experiences often curse them and dissapprove. My only complaint would be that metal more often deals with subjects that simply have no relation to social experiences, like war and slaughter, rather than promoting anti-social values. But it's all good.
Iron Bug
mad bass and vocal
I agree with that. I haven't seen non-talented satanic folowers (and I know many of them). following Satan means having enough strenght to be totally responsible for your own deeds and decisions. there's no any god that would forgive your mistakes and one reaps what he saw. but besides, I have seen millions of stupid and weak chrisitans of all kinds - they have no reason to become more clever, strong and proud, it's all right to them to stay miserable and useless - in this way they will get to their weird "paradise".
I prefer the way of strenght and pride, the way of Darkness, as they call it but actually the real mental and spiritual darkness is, on the contrary, the way of obedience and weakness. my music reflects my way of thinking: strenght, pride and the great freedom.
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