Mackie Onyx 1200F vs. M-Audio Profire 2626

[AdamWathan]

I know nobody here has used either of these since the Profire isn't even out yet and I'm not sure if the Onyx is either, but based purely on a features : price ratio and including any experience/reputation with the quality of both companies, what would you guys go with here...?

The Onyx is like, $1600 which is more than twice the price of the M-Audio, and you get 4 extra pre's, 2 extra headphone outputs, a few more balanced outs, AES in, 4 dedicated inserts and a built in talk back section. You'd have more control over your headphone mixes vs. using the Profire + external headphone amp since you could control each mix individually using the Onyx software I assume, but that's about it.

The only thing the Profire has over the Onyx is the M-Powered compatibility. But at $700, I could buy an additional 8 channel ADAT pre and an external headphone amp with the extra $900 and I'm up to par with the Onyx aside from the extra balanced outs which I wouldn't need (the Profire still has 8), the inserts which I also wouldn't use, and the AES in, which to be honest, I don't even know what that is, so I can't need it that badly AND, I'd have a total of 16 pre's vs the 12 on the Onyx which is infinitely more useful than the features I'd be missing out on...

So my question to you guys is do you think there is anything about the Mackie unit that makes it worth the pricetag vs. the competition? Is M-Audio's stuff really that bad or is Mackie that much better?

 

[006]

It could go either way man. I was going to get the 1200F but the damn thing keeps getting pushed back over and over again. So instead of waiting for something that, seemingly, will never come out, I decided to get a MOTU 8Pre and a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26i/o. While I haven't even looked at the specs for the Profire, I can tell you that the Onyx preamps are pretty freakin' good. Which is probably the main reason I wanted the 1200F to begin with, and also the connectivity options. The Saffire I am using now allows 16 channels of ADAT so I'm very happy about that, and run my 8Pre into it that way. The only quarrel I have with the Saffire, though, is that you have to use the control software to enable 48v phantom power as there is no external switch(es) or any way to do it as if it were a standalone unit, that I know of anyway.

I would check to see about the preamp and converter quality of the M-Audio interface, if they are on par with what Mackie is "offering" with their unreleased 1200F, then go for it. However, the Mackie stuff has made a name for itself with the Onyx pres. I've worked with them a couple of times and love those pres.

~e.a

 

[Metaltastic]

The 1200F also uses AKM converters, which are also used by MOTU, RME, etc. - don't know about the M-Audio.

 

[AdamWathan]

Cool thanks for the info guys... I don't mind spending the cash for the 1200F if it's going to be more useful to me in the long run as I accumulate nicer stuff vs. the Profire...

elephant-audio, you can turn phantom power on in standalone mode on the Saffire. You have to make sure you set the standalone mode to "Tracking" from the Hardware menu in the SaffireControl software before you power it off (you can do this the first time you turn it on and it'll remember it forever, so you don't need to plug it in, set it to tracking, and then unplug it to use it standalone) and then when you power it on in standalone mode, the S1 button turns on phantom power for 1-4 and the S2 button turns it on for 5-8. I had a Saffire for about a month but returned it because the mic pre's were too hot for my drum tracking sessions even at 0, because the gain range is +13 to +60 and there's no pad :\

 

[AdamWathan]

I think I'm going to go with the Profire 2626 and add an Onyx 800R pre down the road... Does anyone know for sure if the 800R uses the same converters as the 1200F? It doesn't really give any details on the 800R A/D D/A while it specifically mentions the AKM converters on the 1200F page so it makes me think they are probably not as good as the 1200F converters...

The Onyx 1200F definitely looks awesome but that's a serious chunk of change to drop, especially since I'd still have to add another pre later on to hit at least 16 ch of audio... But I guess I could probably get away with the 12 Onyx pre's and add some high quality dual channel pre's or something down the road, that would probably serve me better than 8 Onyx pre's and 8 mid-level M-Audio Octane pre's...

Why oh why is there so much gear to choose from

 

[AdamWathan]

Argh I think I'm going with the Onyx 1200F... I won't need to add any pre's for a while that way and I'll have superior A/D conversion that I won't have to upgrade any time soon... The only thing is I don't know what pre I would add down the road... I don't want to add something that is technically "inferior" like an Octopre if the Onyx pre's are that good, but I also don't want to add like an 800R and be stuck with 20 of the same preamp... Any suggestions? Something ADAT...

 

[colonel kurtz]

if you end up with the mackie, i wouldn't bother adding any more preamps unless they were some truly high-end shit, or to specifically get something with some more character

i have an onyx 1640 and an art mpa gold...i'll probably get a groove tubes brick also whenever i have the $$, but after that, i can't imagine another preamp under $700-800 that would be worth messing with

 

[AdamWathan]

I'm thinking that I would probably be fine with 12 pre's for quite a while, I can't think of any situation where I couldn't get by comfortably, even though there are a few where I'd have to compromise with maybe not using a bottom snare mic, or no room mic, etc.

I guess then later down the road the only real upgrade worth making would be adding a separate A/D converter and some nice separate pre's to increase the amount of inputs I have.

I was considering a Fireface 800 and an 8 channel ADAT pre as well, but at the end of the day that would cost more than the Onyx 1200F and all of my preamps would be inferior to the Onyx pre's, plus I if I didn't want to use the A/D in the ADAT pre, I would be limited to 10 tracks since the Fireface shares 2 of the line ins with it's mic preamps...

Sorry, just thinking out loud haha, but yeah, looks like the Onyx is the way to go. Just waiting on some replies from eBay vendors and such to see if I can find one. Sweetwater says they'll have another batch on Feb 11, but I need to have it in my hands by the 12th or 13th if I want to use it before March... It seems like people have been able to get them since around October last year, just very limited quantities, so I think I should be able to snag one somewhere...

 

[Metaltastic]

I'm with you on the Onyx being the best choice, but I'm curious as to why you think the Onyx pres would be better than the Fireface's. I was under the impression the FF had pretty damn good preamps...

 

[AdamWathan]

Everything I've read suggested that the Fireface pre's are decent, but that the unit's selling point is really the A/D D/A conversion. Everyone seems to really really like the Onyx preamps though... Realistically, I would probably be happy with the Fireface pre's, I haven't heard anyone say they are bad, I just haven't heard anyone really rave about them like I see with the Mackie pre's... But still, at $1500 for a Fireface 800 + $900 for like an Octopre, I'm at $2400 for 16 preamps and only 10 of them can use the Fireface A/D. The Onyx pre's are at least as good as the RME and Focusrite pre's and all 12 of them are running through the Mackie A/D which is seemingly on par with the RME...

If the RME had like, 8 pre's and was priced closer to $1100-$1200, I'd be in serious decision making trouble haha, but the RME is designed with a slightly different application in mind so it's designed and priced appropriately...

It comes down to your personal preference and what you're looking for really, but it looks the the Onyx is the best choice for me.

 

[006]

Everything I've read suggested that the Fireface pre's are decent, but that the unit's selling point is really the A/D D/A conversion.

That pretty much sums it up. While the preamps are better than a lot of units, I'm inclined to believe that the Onyx pres are at least a noticeable amount above them in quality. I have actually worked with a Mackie that had the Onyx pres and I love them. The FF preamps don't get praised, almost, at all. Meanwhile the conversion and preamps (most important things, besides connectivity) on the Onyx have been making a stir in the hardware end of audio. If the Onyx employs the same converters as the FF then it's a no-brainer...1200F should be your choice.

~e.a

 

[colonel kurtz]

just curious, but are you going to be mixing ITB or analog? if you're going ITB, the 1640 might suit you better than the 1200F...

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah I thought about it but I don't really want a big mixer taking up all my desk space plus the 1640 has no ADAT in... thanks for the suggestion though!