Mad Cow / CJD

judas69

god is in the radio
Dec 29, 2005
2,003
2
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I'm extremely curious what everyone else thinks about this. I know a lot of people are very defensive about their beef and I can understand this, as I was huge beef eater until about 2 years ago. I've since given up beef (went for 15 months straight at one point) except for a BigMac here and there as of late :)

Posting the following I think is a great way to get this arguement going.

"A study at the University of Pittsburgh, in which autopsies were done on 54 demented patients diagnosed as having probable or possible Alzheimer's or some other dementia (but not CJD), found three cases (or 5.5%) of CJD among the 54 studied."

"A Yale study found that of 46 patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's, six (or 13%) were CJD at autopsy. Since there are over two million cases of Alzheimer's disease currently in the United States, if even a small percentage of them turned out to be CJD, there could be a hidden CJD epidemic."
 
It's simply a result of messing about with farming. If we never fed cows crappy foodstuffs that were made up out of leftovers then we'd not have this problem.
Cows eat grass, not other cows. As soon as you screw that up you're in trouble!
 
This whole thing is really really scary. It all is supposed to have started here in Britain and I've been trying to follow all the new developments but I hadn't heard the study you mentioned Judas 69. Probably suppressed here.
There are only supposed to have been around 100 confirmed cases of new variant CJD ever. Yet this is surely a lie because it doesn't square with the number of people who have been found to be blood doners who have died of it or that Alzheimer study.

There are MASSIVE financial implications for many powerful industries and for the economy and for general societal control which would be sufficient for the plague to be allowed to carry on spreading and be covered up.

Breast milk from someone with AIDs is infectious, and they say there's no evidence that cows with BSE (which are mostly dairy cattle) pass it on. Well I immediately gave serious consideration to becoming vegan. (Obviously eating beef or gelatine was immediately out). Instead I just have organic dairy products, and a lot of soya.

In Saudi Arabia they banned all British dairy products and sweets with dairy or gelatine (beef too obviously). Did they know/suspect something?

Certainly the US (and is it every other country) will not accept British people as blood donors nor any plasma products from here. But the British still have to use the blood, although I think plasma is imported.

There is no way of cleaning surgical equipment that has come into contact with CJD. No heat treatment is sufficient. The most risky opperations are tonsillectomies, eyes and appendix opperations. Even dental equipment may be affected.

A woman who died of it had a young daughter who caught CJD in the womb and died shortly after her mother. It could be in sperm (and in the soil) which is why they haven't managed to eliminate it.

There was a policy of killing calfs to eat before they reached 36 months of age. This was because symtoms were only showing in older cattle. So was this policy to disguise (and continue spreading) the disease as the calfs could be incubating it? Or was it because they are safe to eat?

The suspected incubation time for CJD is around 30 years, although some people with certain genes get it earlier. They may be the tip of the iceberg.
When someone has it their unborn kids get it and so on generation after generation. Will humanity end up having a 30 year life expectancy as a result?

The latest theory (which made the news headlines last year) on how it started is that some of the food for livestock was imported from India and that human bodies from the Ganges got mixed up regularly in that - and their brains were contaminated. Check it on google if you don't believe it.
 
They buried a lot of BSE cows in pits, with likely contamination of water table. Incineration is thought to spread the deadly prions everywhere in the air. It is not known how many prions you must eat to get infected, but they suspect it is very minimal.
 
There have been a couple of cases of Mad Cow in America recently.

I'm a vegan, so you'd think I would be home free---- Not so, because of cross-contamination. (Like what Norsemaiden is saying ^) Anything that beef touches will also carry mad cow :(.

I worry about my family and friends a lot though.
 
Being vegan is a wise choice Susperia. It must help. I'm just trying organic as at least those cows have not been fed with the contaminated feed at any stage.
 
Mad cow disease, or BSE and CJD are very simlar to natural diseases that livestock can suffer from eg: scrapie.
In fact CJD has been about for years but it is only the new variant form that has got people worried.
Tribes of people in the Pacific islands suffered from a very similar disease due to eating brains of dead relatives.
 
It was on the discovery network, that many peoples: northern europeans, melanesians, and others I;ve forgotten, have a natural resistance to mad cow, due to their relatives cannibalism sometime in the past.

But, fish is loaded with mercury and other pollutants that are dumped into the sea.

This is actually a issue for the federal government to intervene with the quality of feed etc, as consumers will continue eating beef (including me-and I eat it probably once a day) and supermarkets enjoy the excess profits from organic beef. So, the market will never correct itself unless there is a massive epidemic of madcow.

I really dont understand veganism. It seems most vegans are vegans for their own selfish benefit, not altruistic aims. And jesus, how could one live without a nice veal cutlet, or a piece of goat cheese, or bacon and eggs? Life would be so...tasteless. (I fully expect an attack from Mr. Holier than thou Judas 69 for these comments)
 
Norsemaiden said:
Being vegan is a wise choice Susperia. It must help. I'm just trying organic as at least those cows have not been fed with the contaminated feed at any stage.

Organic is definitely the way to go, but I would say pay careful attention to the labelling. Tossing in x number of grains might constitute organic in some cases, in the same way that adding 5% actual fruit juice allows it to be advertised as real fruit juice.

Isn't it interesting though that Japan, who has since just recently re-reinstanted the ban of American beef exports, tests each and every animal before slaughter while America ..amidst the BSE scare, actually stopped testing for it period. This of course is the easy way not to find any more tainted meat, especially when you consider how large the beef industry really is, and it's impact on our economy.

More generally, can you really trust your Government when it comes to your safety; your media when it comes to the truth? And even more general than that, how does capitalism play into all of this?

Ahh, what a tangled web we weave!
 
Susperia said:
There have been a couple of cases of Mad Cow in America recently.

I'm a vegan, so you'd think I would be home free---- Not so, because of cross-contamination. (Like what Norsemaiden is saying ^) Anything that beef touches will also carry mad cow :(.

I worry about my family and friends a lot though.


......but wasn't that the result of us sending our beef down there and it being tested by your countries' health experts? In addition to our very own positive test? That's why the Canadian/American border beef ban lasted so long.

It's all part of getting the product to market as quick as possible in order to capitalize on the global marketplace. And doing whatever it take.....genetic engineering, growth-hormone heavy diets, etc.....to attain their goals. Canada is no different that way.....and is just as guilty.

If I remember, Argentina also has a situation back in the mid-90's with tainted Corned Beef worldwide. And these products had to be removed from the shelves of many stores.

We're not alone!
 
I can't stop thinking about this Wendy's burger with biggied fries.

I had one about a month and a half ago and OMFG .. nothing's better! o_O

burger.gif
 
Yeah seriously, learn how to cook. I swear to you nothing from fast food will ever come close. I cook almost every night for myself or my boyfriend and I.

I'm getting pretty damn good. Vegan lasagna tomorrow night!
 
Yeah that's more like it! I do vegan spag bol. Soya mince is much nicer than meat mince. None of that chewy gristle.
 
MasterOLightning said:
No, I like steak/beef/hamburgers/beef jerky way too much. Sorry.

I'm in agreement with you there.

I do agree with the need to better regulate the meat industry; however, i dont think there is any question that meat, fish, and poultry is an essential part of a healthy diet--and one our bodies were meant to consume.
 
speed said:
however, i dont think there is any question that meat, fish, and poultry is an essential part of a healthy diet--and one our bodies were meant to consume.

You're not quite right there. Anyone that has studied the human body would realize we're put together differently from other carnivores/omnivores. If you just look at our teeth compared to that of a dog it's pretty obvious. Ours are all flat except for the two incisors, which some scientists believe were for cracking nuts and other hard shelled foods, or that we evolved them over time because we insisted on eating animal flesh.

Another example is our colon. As we all know, ours is very long and winding and bunched up, it's easy to get things stuck in there and rot---that's why colon cancer is increasingly dangerous. However, looking at a dog's colon, or any other natural omnivore/carnivore, you see it's shaped much differently. It's short and pretty straight. Meat can pass through easily. That's why a lot of people get constipated from eating meat.

Heh, that was gross, I know. I'm sorry if anyone is disgusted but it's the truth.
 
Susperia said:
You're not quite right there. Anyone that has studied the human body would realize we're put together differently from other carnivores/omnivores. If you just look at our teeth compared to that of a dog it's pretty obvious. Ours are all flat except for the two incisors, which some scientists believe were for cracking nuts and other hard shelled foods, or that we evolved them over time because we insisted on eating animal flesh.

Another example is our colon. As we all know, ours is very long and winding and bunched up, it's easy to get things stuck in there and rot---that's why colon cancer is increasingly dangerous. However, looking at a dog's colon, or any other natural omnivore/carnivore, you see it's shaped much differently. It's short and pretty straight. Meat can pass through easily. That's why a lot of people get constipated from eating meat.

Heh, that was gross, I know. I'm sorry if anyone is disgusted but it's the truth.

Well we are not totally carnivores like dogs, we are omnnivores. Look, your body needs protein; and nuts, and eggs and soy(which wasnt around) were not plentiful enough in early stages of human development. And also, one needs meat for iron, and one needs some cholesterol in ones diet believe it or not. Hence, we ate meat. We banded together in tribes or clans, and hunted. This is nothing new here. There is no controversy. The difference is, wild animals are quite lean (8-10% fat that would mostly burn off during cooking), whereas farm raised engineered animals are quite fatty.

Furthermore, the introduction of meat into a non-meat diet, produces bigger and smarter people and offspring. The workhouses of the ancient pyramid builders were filled with animal bones. Even the ancients, who had reverted to a grain based diet, figured this out. I also point your attention to every primitive culture in the world today: they all eat meat. In fact, those cultures that did not have the land for meat consumption, still even then, the nobles ate meat, and any peasant would have considered even a piece of tripe, a feast.

Finally, I remind you, that besides Americans, a lesser number of Europeans, and some religious southern Indians (and I remind you, that the Brahmins and higher class of Indians eat every kind of meat but cow, and furthermore, this religious restriction may have been done for control and economic reasons) there is no one else in the world today that doesnt consume some kind of animal flesh. ITs a natural part of human society. In fact, one hundred years ago, we would be having this conversation, as only a handful of people in the world would have objected.

I think you would have a totally different view of meat, if livestock wasnt raised in the manner it is now.
 
speed said:
Well we are not totally carnivores like dogs, we are omnnivores. Look, your body needs protein; and nuts, and eggs and soy(which wasnt around) were not plentiful enough in early stages of human development. And also, one needs meat for iron, and one needs some cholesterol in ones diet believe it or not. Hence, we ate meat. We banded together in tribes or clans, and hunted. This is nothing new here. There is no controversy. The difference is, wild animals are quite lean (8-10% fat that would mostly burn off during cooking), whereas farm raised engineered animals are quite fatty.

Furthermore, the introduction of meat into a non-meat diet, produces bigger and smarter people and offspring. The workhouses of the ancient pyramid builders were filled with animal bones. Even the ancients, who had reverted to a grain based diet, figured this out. I also point your attention to every primitive culture in the world today: they all eat meat. In fact, those cultures that did not have the land for meat consumption, still even then, the nobles ate meat, and any peasant would have considered even a piece of tripe, a feast.

Finally, I remind you, that besides Americans, a lesser number of Europeans, and some religious southern Indians (and I remind you, that the Brahmins and higher class of Indians eat every kind of meat but cow, and furthermore, this religious restriction may have been done for control and economic reasons) there is no one else in the world today that doesnt consume some kind of animal flesh. ITs a natural part of human society. In fact, one hundred years ago, we would be having this conversation, as only a handful of people in the world would have objected.

I think you would have a totally different view of meat, if livestock wasnt raised in the manner it is now.

I'm sorry but you're wrong on several accounts. I've researched this for over six years and I can honestly say that:

A) Dogs are omnivores, not carnivores. Cats are carnivores. Dogs eat almost anything they can get their paws on.

B) The protein myth is exactly that----A myth. Come up by the Meat and Dairy Council, which, believe it or not, practically own the Food and Drug Administration in this country. Too much protein, which is extremely common in America, is bad for you. You'd be surprised how little protein we're actually made to consume, and the effects that too much have on our bodies (for women--- think osteoperosis. It doesn't have to do with just calcium.)

C) There is PLENTY, and when I say plenty I mean the proper amount, of iron in green vegetables like broccoli, and spinach, and in legumes and fruit. Which are better for you than meat anyway because they have antioxidants, fiber and more variety of vitamins than meat does to keep your immune system healthy.

D) Your body MAKES IT'S OWN CHOLESTEROL! Hence, that is how we get it!

E) Soybeans are a type of bean/legume. Who the hell says that beans weren't around then? There was definetly beans at whatever time in history you're thinking of.

"there is no one else in the world today that doesnt consume some kind of animal flesh. "

Not true. There are still islands around the world where people never eat meat and rarely sometimes fish and are strong, peaceful and live to be well over 100 years old, because their bodies are kept in such wonderful shape and cancer and heart disease is almost nonexistent because they are not clogging their arteries with cholesteral and their colons with shit.

I agree that meat can be a part of the human diet, however it should be a small part of it, if it even is a part. People who live that way, like many cultures of Native Americans, grow to be incredibly strong and it's a fact that people who eat mainly plant foods have amazing endurance, something that meat eaters, just physically can't have. (And I'm talking about humans. Natural carnivores like tigers have incredible endurance because they are meant to eat meat).

Like I said, I've studied and seen the effects of eating and not eating meat have on the human body. I see it every day. We consume much too much of it.

Oh yeah and one more thing,
"Furthermore, the introduction of meat into a non-meat diet, produces bigger and smarter people and offspring."

Says who?? Albert Einstein was a vegetarian for christ's sake!