Making pop?

[ItsAFugazzi]

I say pop, it's more like technical funk/soul/pop.

Anyway, I fucking love the production on Michael Jackson's Dangerous album and consider it to be the best mixed album ever. Up there with Metallica's Black album.

Anywho, I've set myself the challenge to pay attention to minute detail and create a sort of sound surgery on the percussion, making sure each part has it's own space and interacts with the other drums just right. Ear candy if you will.

Anyway, I've got something I think is totally rad but now I'm facing the puzzle of vocals. Do I change my vocal style for this type of material? My vocals are mostly hard rock. But I don't mean the way I sing exactly, more so how I write the melodies... I'm not exactly sure where to start, i've had a bash at coming up with some stuff but I can't really make my style fit with it.

I know this is a metal forum but as musicians, any ideas?

 

[MetalJonesy]

id say just go with whatever feels right, maybe stick to your comfort zone with regards melodies for say a couple of chunks of the vocal passes, then spice it up here and there and that may help derrive new melodies/phrasings for the bits you've already written. Really digging the tune on your soundclick!!!


oh and where in the NE are ya from?

 

[ItsAFugazzi]

ha thanks man. I'm from Hartlepool.

As far as vocals go I think I've just gotta come up with as many ideas as possible and record them all and see which one I like the most.

 

[aramism]

bruce swedien is a genius...

 

[ItsAFugazzi]

bruce swedien is a genius...

lol - my current status on facebook is "thinks bruce swedien is a genius"

The dude is a fucking master. No doubt.

 

[aramism]

one of the most inspirational things i ever read was in a mix magazine interview a while back ago when he said people ask him all the time "how do i develop my ears for mixing" and he asks them "what do you think the best practice is?" and people respond "listen to good mixes and try to figure out what is good about them?" and he said "absolutely not. the best practice is going to a concert whether it's a rock band or a philharmonic and listening. just listen to how sound acts in the natural world" something like that. i'm sure someone can dig it up my paraphrasing of it doesn't do it justice and there was more to it anyway.


ps - i love his mixes and especially how he rides vocals and how they naturally breath there is automation all over the place much like andy wallace insane levels of automation.

 

[ItsAFugazzi]

Bruce Swedien Q&A <-- He's got a bunch of posts on the gearslutz forums, I actually only found that today so been reading through it all day.

There's a bunch of clips of him on youtube aswell discussing a bunch of stuff.

I truly think Dangerous is a mixing masterpiece. It's just pure ear candy, there's so much attention to detail. The way the sounds are manipulated and interact with each other is just to my ears, perfection. But credit also goes to Teddy Riles for the percussion.

I read this interview with Teddy Riley earlier and he mentions the drum machine they used on the title track of Dangerous by name. It's the Akai MPC-60, I have a bunch of collections so I checked to see if I had it and I do... Sure enough, that's them. Although they're tuned & manipulated etc...

 

[aramism]

though its not complicated from a pure emotional standpoint my favorite mix and vocal stuff is in "stranger in moscow"

 

[aramism]

also check Walter Afanasieff he is one of the sickest songwriters ever. reading his discography of songwriting will literally yield massive amounts of jaw dropping. nearly every major pop hit in the 90s has this guy credited one way or another.

 

[16S]

Really digging the tune on your soundclick!!!

+1

 

[MetalJonesy]

yeah that morphine tune is well sick, got a link to an mp3??


ahh hartlepool, not the biggest of fans, only caus of the footy rivalry

 

[ItsAFugazzi]

yeah that morphine tune is well sick, got a link to an mp3??


ahh hartlepool, not the biggest of fans, only caus of the footy rivalry

Sure dude Morphine ... Funny thing we're talking about pop and Michael Jackson and my track Morphine is mentioned... I actually named that after Michael Jacksons track of the same name from the Blood on the Dancefloor EP

ha I stay out of that hoopla. I love football but I don't get involved in rivalries or out like that.

 

[MetalJonesy]

cheers for the mp3 man, appreciate it, like the style!! haha yer im not a hardcore darlo fan, like ill just go watch the odd cpl of games a season when im up, always a good laf like!!

 

[cococo]

Hey Fugazzi! Good style and songs man!

 

[xJSx]

You are right man, Dangerous is Incredible.
Anyway I love Bad and Thriller too (according to the time they where realesed)
I bought a UA 6176 because I reed it was jackson's vocal secret, smashing vocals with the 1176 thats great. I work with melodic hardcore a lot and I love "inspirating" (hehehe) my self with this pop stuff, I think they have the clue.

 

[ItsAFugazzi]

Hey Fugazzi! Good style and songs man!

cheers dude

You are right man, Dangerous is Incredible.
Anyway I love Bad and Thriller too (according to the time they where realesed)
I bought a UA 6176 because I reed it was jackson's vocal secret, smashing vocals with the 1176 thats great. I work with melodic hardcore a lot and I love "inspirating" (hehehe) my self with this pop stuff, I think they have the clue.

I just read that before each vocal take during recording Jackson would warm his voice up for an HOUR... EVERYTIME time before a take.

- That is fucking crazy.

 

[aramism]

cheers dude



I just read that before each vocal take during recording Jackson would warm his voice up for an HOUR... EVERYTIME time before a take.

- That is fucking crazy.

all the "rumors" about thriller were always sm7b + la610 + 1176

but then again those are rumors all the studio footage i've seen i've seen like the high end condensers like akg c12 etc.

 

[xJSx]

yes I have the 3 pack

SM7b + 6176 (610+1176)

great man
now it only remains to got someone like MJ on de vocals hehehe

 

[aramism]

multi year thread bump...

i've read every bruce swedien book since this. def sm7b + 610 and very little vocal compression and reverb.

from what i understand sm7 and the akg c12 were mj goto mics. bruce also used the sm7b on a lot of other projects like jennifer lopez etc.

side note: i've used it with some singers also and it sounds great. shure is such an awesome company with the best value-to-quality ratio of like any company in the world.





ps - another bump on walter afanasieff. basically the secret behind mariah careys success was his songwriting and production, her vocal chords, and tommy motollas management. once she cut ties with afanasieff and divorced tommy motolla her career went south. it's simple math.