Master Mixing

[music]

Andy, say you are mixing with your favorite 2 bus treatments, the thing is kicking ass. It is requested of you to get it ready to send to your favorite 3rd party squasher (mastering). Do you take the processing off the 2 bus and re-mix a bit in order to re-balance due to it falling apart without said 2 bus processing. Or, do you leave as is and send it off, mastering be damned?

Please answer my mixing query when you get a milli-second of available time.

Thanks,

Keith

 

[gorath23]

Whats the point of mixing it all with the Master Bus bits on, only to take it off afterwards? Leave it on, provided you aren't using -400db of Compression/Limiting ala Death Magnetic. How much processing are you using on the 2-Bus? I normally just stick with a Tape Saturator and a teeny amount of Comp to help the track pump in time (normally responding to the kick and/or snare).

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Mix with it, remove it if someone else has to master. You will NOT send a mix already compressed.

 

[smy1]

Mix with it, remove it if someone else has to master. You will NOT send a mix already compressed.

This is highly subjective. I always send my mixes compressed. Not much, but they sound like I want them to sound and not different.

 

[izzyrock]

Depends on if that compression is part of your mix or not

 

[if6was9]

yeah I'd send it with a touch of comp if I thought it sounded better with that particular comp used with those settings- I wouldn't have it squashed or limited to death though, thats their job

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

If a person tends to mix with a compressor acting in the master bus, removing that will alter the sound completely, if it's not overly squashed/limited I think it should go with whatever you put there so it goes with that little bit of coloration you like.. am I right?

 

[James Murphy]

you shouldn't have to remix if you've mixed properly to begin with.... if compression is tasteful and not severe, just leave it. do not limit.

 

[Ermz]

I'd say it'd depend on a case-to-case basis. If you've mixed right into a 2-bus comp from the very start, chances are your mix will unravel like a bunch of threads when you take it off. If you've only added it on afterward for some extra punch, perhaps you could go without. Also depends on what the mastering engineer you're sending to prefers.

The last project I did, I was hitting the 2-bus for the majority of the process simply because I was struggling so much to pull together a good sound. Snare and kick levels were out of whack, which were subsequently brought down by a limiter I had going on the end. When it came time to send off to mastering, I backed off a ton on the limiter, and since the 2-bus compression was very light (I usually only do .5 to 1dB GR) I left it on. I made sure there was enough headroom and dynamics in there for the mastering engineer to be able to work with, and that was enough.

 

[James Murphy]

i'd say to not turn on any 2-buss compression until aboutj 75% or more through your mix

 

[joeymusicguy]

i gather/get my levels going pretty good during the tracking stage.

i get my +3's and -3's and +6's and -6's going (im a volume jerk, i do things in 1.5db increments, nothing in between...)

and if i find out my guitars all too loud i turn the group down. that still keeps all my minor volume changes in the mix.

anyways, get the good levels. then setup the compression and mix through that for the rest of the way.

when i begin a mix, my levels are good to and i start with the compression.

it really depends on the work flow. i dont send my stuff anywhere to get mastered because i just dont trust it. no one is going to know better than me what i want it to do.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I dont send my stuff anywhere to get mastered because i just dont trust it. no one is going to know better than me what i want it to do.

Way to go man!

 

[James Murphy]

i dont send my stuff anywhere to get mastered because i just dont trust it. no one is going to know better than me what i want it to do.

if you move on to more label work with bigger labels you will eventually have no choice in the matter. that's the reality of it, so the sooner you get over yourself on that one, the better for your future.

 

[Ermz]

Whilst I understand that the ego-factor can be a hindrance in most areas of life, I think it can be an active choice to continue working with indie bands and labels, never actively pursuing major label work. This is one of the reasons many of us can afford to master our own stuff (I don't, but others evidently do) and not be forced into using 'industry standard' recording systems like ProTools HD. Conforming to what the businessmen want hardly seems the progressive attitude that moves the music industry forward in any significant way. Given the major labels' inability to adapt to and capitalize upon the current generation of music procurement should be testament to why their standards and expectations should not be taken without question.

 

[James Murphy]

how old are you Ermin? live on your own yet? economics will soon enough force you to either shit or get off the pot... that is to say, take your career more seriously and work for whoever hires you (given that you like the music and pay) and let the "moving the music business forward" bit to the market, which will drive it no matter what you do with your career. besides, some clients.. whether they are signed or not... have a mastering engineer in mind, and while you may want to offer them your version as an option you cannot/should not try to talk them out of it. and you certainly shouldn't be demanding or dictating that you master.... had that accusation made to me once already, even though it strictly wasn't true, and it's no fun.

in my situation i agreed to mix a project for X amount of money based on a belief that i was helping a new buddy who was tight on cash.... then i found out they were going to be paying a mastering engineer over double what they had paid me to mix.... i strongly suggested that i master, and added that if they could pay that guy so much, then they could have paid me more (basically i felt i had been misled). Seemed to go over ok at the time, as they agreed to it... but it bit me in the ass in the end. i don't suggest it.

also, you never know what will happen with an indie band once you've done their album.... if you've produced/mixed such a band that then goes on to get signed to a big label, well that's out of your hands.... and what if that label likes your mix, but wants a big name to master... but you've mixed through your mastering chain. This happened to me... and it cost me the mix in the end. Again, i strongly DO NOT suggest this. always, always, always, always make your mixes fine withOUT a mastering chain in place... or you will pay for it, eventually, irrespective of any altruistic wrapping you place around your argument. Do not assume you will be given the opportunity to remix, even if you offer it for free. trust me on this one.

finally, if you are suggesting that you would turn down big label work over your principles... well you must be independently wealthy so feel free to give my contact info when you turn down that work. i'm not buyin' it though man... it all sniffs of a bit of self-serving justification to me, and i've done enough of that myself in the past to recognize the smell.

 

[LSD-Studio]

I usually have a C2 on the 2bus...attack like 30ms, fast release, 1.5:1 ratio...needle barely mooving, I jut like the mojo it's adding...

I'll leave that on when doing the mixdown 'cause I made level-decisions etc mixing though it and it's only grabbing like a dB max.

I never (nowadays) have anything like a limiter or so on the mixbus....

I always recommend my clients to have it masteredby an outside guy but I always like to suggest who should be doing the mastering to have some kind of control over it...or better..I know he won't fuck my mix up.

I will do a rougmaster though and see how things sound after being brought up in volume and I'll go back to my mix and fix things if necessairy according to what bothered me after the "roughmaster".

I'll then send out the corrected mix or master myself (depending on budget, client etc..)

as James said...NEVER mix through your mastering-chain.


if you can't/don't want to have your mix mastered by an outside guy (be it ego or budget) give the project a couple of days break before you do the mastering...try to treat it like it was someone else's mix.

 

[siegfried]

Why not to send both versions (2buss processing on and off) of song to mastering house?

 

[LSD-Studio]

Why not to send both versions (2buss processing on and off) of song to mastering house?

depends what you mean by "2buss processing "
see, I'm for example mixing through a compressor (see post above), what the comp is doing is part of the mix, and not of the mastering.
I cannot just drop a part of the mix, that would be like dropping the comp on the drumbus etc...it'll change the mix and it won't be like 'I wanted it to be...
but no need to be scared, as long as you're not compressing the mix too heavily the mastering engineer will be fine with it.

 

[Machinated]

When my mix has taken shape, I'll whack on an SSL style comp, with the needle barely moving and mix through that. I'll set the gain levels so that when I turn it on and off its about the same volume as without it. I like the character it adds to the mix - and as stated by others above taking it off would change the whole feel of the mix as decisions have been made based on it being on there.

I read on Gearslutz that Jens Bogren was enjoying using an SSL comp on 10:1 ratio, but with the needle barely moving because of the punch it added. I'm using lower ratios right now, maybe I should try something higher.

 

[James Murphy]

though it was clear in my post, i'll repeat because somehow i get the feeling it's not coming across... i'm talking about heavy compression and about limiting, etc... not a tyical mix compression.

still, your mix shouldn't come totally unglued simply because of turning off the 2-buss comp... if it does, you just aren't mixing soundly.