Mathematic approach for Compressor settings (?)
- Thread starter Plendakor
- Start date
hurdy
Sup
And Plendakor, I don't think its a waste of time to learn how to program things. TBH I am a programmer myself
But I definitely don't waste time writing pointless programs. Weird kunt
But I definitely don't waste time writing pointless programs. Weird kunt
I love that you are obviously bitter about that thread. Please read the last part of my answer and hopefully you will absorb something.
And to the OP, I realise that maybe I jumped on telling you your idea was not ideal too soon. If you are setting the tempo AND THEN slightly adjusting for the key of the song, maybe there's something to that idea. From the way you described it originally it sounded like you were using the maths only and disregarding the "feel".
One thing I have to mention is that perhaps you both shouldn't get so defensive about your ideas. You've come here to discuss them and people have pointed out issues with them. If you are more open to "discussion" rather than getting defensive when people question your point of view, then perhaps you wouldn't feel so victimised.
The whole premise of this thread is to watch, to calculate, to make decisions on other then musical preferences. And as has been pointed out in this thread, that's utterly moronic.
The basic consept of the idea is not new but in this thread the consept has been blown so out of proportion it's just ridiculous. The dudes in the sixties didn't use math equations.. Do you know why? Because they don't add anything to the fucking table. Look at the meter: "Good.. It pumps with the song". That's it.. That's all there is to it. Period. After that, it's just different shades of jerkin' off and pretending to be clever.
But I guess it's the next logical step in music production.. After a decade of grid editing and auto tuning everything to shit, based on VISUAL information, we can finally start prosessing the audio among the lines of mathematical information.
And no, it's not good for me. It's not a competition. Atleast not for me.. I, and I
believe we all, want to create something with a meaning. Something that can and will touch others.. And if someone thinks that calculating the 'correct' ms on compressor settings has anything to do with it, they need a gentle tap on the cheek with a two-by-four.
And on your notion of The Womb.. Let me guess, you thought you had some clever new gimmick that is super effective.. Then you posted it in the The Womb, and the regulars tore you a new one..? And now you are feeling butthurt because some plus 20 years of a-list engineers didn't like your idea? And now you hang here because among the guys who consider M-Audio and a pair of 2030's a studio, you can stroke your cock an' keep telling yourself that your still smarter than 'those guys over there'..?
Like you are doing? In that Womb thread you turned nasty and insulted engineers and producers with a list of credits too long to mention and decades of experience. All because they didn't like your idea. The guys that argued with you aren't home recording enthusiasts, they are PROS. More pro than any of us will ever be lucky to be, and you dismissed their advice and got aggressive. And you told a user here "to go back to the fucking Womb"...obviously you have an issue with the members there.
If you want an indication of who you were insulting over there, try looking up Eric Sarafin's credits. That's Mixerman, and all those other guys who tried to help you in that thread are just as experienced.
And you obviously don't know any better, because you are making the same aggressive, insulting comments here that you made when people there disagreed with you. Maybe you should accept that some people do know better because they have been through it all already. Learn from these people - audio forums on the net are a great resource, if you were willing to listen you could find techniques that would improve your work immensely - i know i have.
I understand your point of view bout your eyes being more precise, but that's only because you aren't using your ears to their fullest. And the only way to do that is to train them through years of hard work
Any "crutch" (as you put it) is exactly that, not a useful tool or a way of improving your mixes.
Nimvi
Member
Well, I think you're all just a bunch of poo poo heads! But I love you nonetheless. I would hug you, but there would be that awkward moment where both guys don't know exactly how deep they should lean into it before it starts to become weird, and we would end up tapping each other's backs to make the gesture more manly. But who is honestly fooled by that, right?
It's a pretty fucking long road from looking at a meter to adjusting your compressor by analysing your audio waves form and adjusting tempos based on the key's natural wave lenght.
Not all ideas are equal. Some ideas deserve to be torn apart. I'm not calling Plendakor a moron or treating him with disrespect. Everyone is entitled to their own techniques and oppinions but it would be naive and childish to demand that every idea should be deemed equal by some 'to each his own' type argumentation.
If someone comes up with an idea that just screams suckkage and asks for oppinions, are others supposed to shut up because someones feelings might get hurt when it's show'n to them that their new brain child is ugly an' terminally ill?
I'd rather be torn apart by other people.. From that I can learn something, get better with my craft. What have you ever learned from all the guys who are giving you highfives for your newest technique of using freeware plugin x with new drum samples from y with the new impulse z?
And as I am only a part-time-lurker in the Womb, I have no idea about what thread you are talking about. But based on your reaction and Matt's words, I guess my original notion wasn't too far off.
egan.
daylightdies.com
There is no such thing is as a "natural wavelength" for a key. At best you're picking the root note but the pedantic exercise fails when you change chords or hit an accidental.
RedDog
Humanoid typhoon
Trevoire520
Member
Yeah that was my first thought reading this, whole idea just seems to be being OCD for the sake of it, I don't think there's any real benefit from doing things with this method.
egan.
daylightdies.com
Timing out a comp to tempo isn't new, but I think what guys don't understand is the advantage of doing the math vs just doing it with ears and meters. The other this is there is nothing necessarily "perfect" about it because it assumes that the ideal sound is a release that fully disengages just in time for the attack, but there is absolutely no guarantee of that and the results will sound quite different on different units/plugins.
I sort of understand because I like to know where things are from a technical standpoint but compression is so feel based that a rule like this only works if the numbers are more important than the sound.
I sort of understand because I like to know where things are from a technical standpoint but compression is so feel based that a rule like this only works if the numbers are more important than the sound.
RedDog
Humanoid typhoon
Because you're wasting time and not doing the job you're being paid to do, which is, using your ears. It's all source dependant anyway, if you can't hear the difference, you're doing it wrong.
Nimvi
Member
An example could be a song where there are constant varying passages of slow and fast kickbeats, or doubles/triples on the kickdrum. You could set the comp so that it releases in time for the slow beats, but on the fast consecutive beats it would automatically duck the follow-up beats a bit, creating an interesting touch to the dynamics.
Similar effects could be had with automation of course, but it can sound pretty good, and it's always nice to have options. Don't know how common this sort of situation is in electronic music btw, but it's the first practical example that came to my mind when I read your question. And of course there is also the situation where you want the release to be shorter than the maximum.
Also, like Egan said, your example seems to be based on the premise that an ideal compressor setting would technically be like the one in the picture, which I hope you agree often isn't the case. I think that's why you struck a nerve with a few people.
Btw, I should add that from the examples you mentioned, an automatic release time detection based from BPM sounds like it could have some use, so that could be interesting.
The rest I sincerely don't understand the point of though, unless you are designing this for some sort of research or artproject. The attack time of a compressor, to me at least, is a shaping tool, and I usually set it to either crush the transient or to give it a pleasant/fitting sound, which is strongly dependant on the attack-curve of the specific compressor and the source. Either way, it would likely not end up at the exact end of the transient, nor be directly related to the tempo of the song. Maybe you use compressors very differently from the way I do, so if you could elaborate on why you think this is a solid idea, that would shed some light on my confusion.
About the BPM-to-key thing, besides whether I think that's a good idea or not, wouldn't that only make sense on single pure sinewaves? The way I see it, every other sound is just too harmonically complex for that concept to hold ground.
I am interested in a youtube video or maybe a blind listening shoot-out about your concept btw. We can discuss this all week, but in the end the proof is in the pudding. I don't mind hearing about ideas that at first sound odd to me... but does it SOUND good? Since this is an audio community, I think that should be the only thing that counts.
Nimvi
Member
^Thanks for your explanation! I think I understand your thoughtprocess with this a bit better now. I'm not sure if the results of your work will be directly useful to me, but there's more people on the planet after all 
And research is research. I've also done extensive tests with new equipment to see what it did with the signal on every setting. Have I ever used the data collected by that? No. But I've never regretted doing those tests, as they did give me some insights into what exactly was happening on the technical side of things.
Btw, somewhat unrelated, but your research reminds me of a guy I've talked to on some exhibition. He was extremely interested in the structure of molecules, the vibrations and revolutions of planets, and a lot of other stuff like that. He ended up doing a musical project about it. He did tons of calculations of all sorts to somehow link the properties of those objects to a musical structure. He succeeded in this, and he explained his reasoning and calculations (which did make sense in a way) to the people at the exhibition, before playing the soundtrack.
From a musician's perspective, this would have sounded like a soulless random mass of music. But his goal was not to write a pretty song. He was just so interested in those objects, that he wondered what they would sound like if you could hear them. And when listening to his track from that perspective, it did sound very mighty and mysterious/outworldish.
I thought that was a pretty unique achievement, and I admired his perseverance.
And research is research. I've also done extensive tests with new equipment to see what it did with the signal on every setting. Have I ever used the data collected by that? No. But I've never regretted doing those tests, as they did give me some insights into what exactly was happening on the technical side of things.
Btw, somewhat unrelated, but your research reminds me of a guy I've talked to on some exhibition. He was extremely interested in the structure of molecules, the vibrations and revolutions of planets, and a lot of other stuff like that. He ended up doing a musical project about it. He did tons of calculations of all sorts to somehow link the properties of those objects to a musical structure. He succeeded in this, and he explained his reasoning and calculations (which did make sense in a way) to the people at the exhibition, before playing the soundtrack.
From a musician's perspective, this would have sounded like a soulless random mass of music. But his goal was not to write a pretty song. He was just so interested in those objects, that he wondered what they would sound like if you could hear them. And when listening to his track from that perspective, it did sound very mighty and mysterious/outworldish.
I thought that was a pretty unique achievement, and I admired his perseverance.
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