Michael Moore: Pathological Liar or Moronic Ideologue?

[redaV_htraD]

Unfairenheit 9/11
The lies of Michael Moore.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM PT

Christopher Hitchens is a die hard liberal with whom I have had some minor correspondence (we are both atheists, although at nearly opposite ends of the political spectrum). But he sees through Michael Moore as a cherap charlatan, and "Farenheit 911" as nothing but rubbish.

It is my firm belief that Michael Moore is a self-absorbed jackass -- and that is his best quality. I concur with Hitchens' view that M. Moore is a Leni Riefenstahl wannabe. But Moore lacks Riefenstahl's depth of appreciation for using symbols to communicate messages about archetypes and ideals. Instead, he's just a crude and incompetent con artist who slaps together images and demands that we all pretend to believe that his incomptetence (even gettting many facts wrong) is just a matter of having "too much material" to cover in "too little time".

Christopher Hitchens on Michael Moore:

"To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery."

URL link to article: The Lies of Michael Moore

There is another thread called "Rock For Bush" in this forum. I have to agree that if a sleazy and incompetent propagandist like Michael Moore is the best that the liberals can offer, Bush is deserving of another term.

 

[5thSeason]

i posted the following message in another thread, but its worth posting agian.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a LOT to say about F9/11 and Moore. I beg each and every one of you to take 5 minutes and read what I am posting, dont just skip around. It is important that you read all of the information I am posting...


F911 starts out by recounting the tired liberal-left canard about George W. Bush "stealing" the 2000 Presidential Election. Gee, we haven’t heard that one before. And for those who actually read the paper and peruse bookstores, there’s little else new in this waste of celluloid.

Moore shows endless shots of Bush and administration officials being made up for TV appearances, montages of Bush golfing and on vacation, a shot of Bush with his dog – all accompanied by the sarcastic vocal commentary of Michael Moore. (You didn’t expect the self-important, schlubby Moore to spare us and stay off-screen, did you?)

In Moore’s world, liberal politicians never get made up or hair coiffed for TV appearances. In Moore’s world, Bill Clinton never golfed, never vacationed for months on Cape Cod and Martha’s Vineyard, never had a dog named "Buddy" – all while Slick Willie had the opportunity (several times) to have Osama Bin Laden handed over to him, but declined.

But that’s Moore’s world. He has learned the Costas Gavras (the famous Socialist-Communist director who produced Anti-American films) technique well. Bush and other administration "villains"--so cast by Moore--are shot from down below, to make them look even more evil.

Moore spends much time on Bin Laden family members flying out of the US when the rest of America was grounded, right after 9-11. Showing a clip of Khalil Bin Laden at the airport, a chyron on the screen cleverly reads "days after 9-11." But, how many days? In fact, while some Bin Ladens did get to fly out early, most of the Bin Laden family flew out of America, after the rest of America could already fly. Moore says the FBI was not allowed to interview them, but in fact, the FBI was allowed to interview them and chose not to. That is disturbing, but it’s not what Moore "reported".

The close relationship between the Bush family, including the current President, and the Saudi Royal Family is troubling. But it’s nothing new, and Moore offers no alternative. The Saudi Royals are, no doubt, despicable. They foster and fund madrasas, mosques, and clerics who preach the death of the West, Christians, and Jews. They hold telethons to fund the "martyrs" and allowed Al-Qaeda to grow. Women can’t drive, and non-Muslims are the equivalent of slaves. Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar is slimy and dishonest.

But the precarious Saudi Royal Family is better than the alternative--the Saudi masses who hate us even more and who love Osama Bin Laden.

If Crown Prince Abdullah is deposed by its extremist population, Bin Laden is the most popular replacement. Given the large Saudi investment in our economy (upon which Moore touches) and large holdings in our banking system, a change in Saudi leadership could result in the collapse of our economy. $2 a gallon oil? That would be a pleasant memory from the past, and only rich phonies like Michael Moore would be able to afford to drive. The Saudis are the largest producers of oil, and the radical Saudi population would see to it that we go back to the horse and buggy.

That is why it’s important for Bush to remain on good terms with the sleazy country that is the home to public beheadings and 15 of the 19 hijackers. Leftists from Moore’s "Amen" crowd won’t let us drill for oil in Alaska, so we can get away from dependence upon the Saudis. Not a peep about that in F911.

And while there’s plenty of factual material to use against the Saudis, Moore fabricates on that, too. He claims that the US Secret Service’s Uniformed Division protects only the Saudi Embassy, no others. That’s just plain false. Any tourist to Washington, DC, will see plenty of Secret Service Police guarding all of the other foreign embassies which request such protection. Other than guarding the White House and some federal buildings, it’s the largest use of personnel by the Secret Service’s Uniformed Division.

Since Moore lies about little things like that, what else has he lied about in this master docu-fakery?

Then there are Moore’s Congressional "experts." F911 features extensive interviews with two of the biggest wackos ever elected to Congress, Reps. Jim McDermott and John Conyers, both far-left Democrats. They spout off against everything from the USA Patriot Act to the War on Iraq.

But he fails to tell us that Jim McDermott was on the take from Saddam Hussein. McDermott was one of three Congressmen who went on Saddam’s propaganda tour of Iraq in Fall 2002. The trip was funded by Life for Relief and Development (LRD), a "charity" which laundered money to terrorist group Hamas’ Jordanian operation. LRD is funded in part by Shakir Al-Khafaji, a man who did about $70 million in business with Saddam through his Falcon Trading Group company (based in South Africa). LRD’s Iraqi offices were raided by US troops last week, and the Detroit-area "charity" is suspected of funding uprisings, such as the one in Fallujah. Its officials bragged of doing so at a recent private US fundraiser.

Mr. Alkhafaji, one of two Americans named in Iraqi newspapers as a participant in Saddam’s "Oil for Food" scam, gave Congressman McDermott $5,000 in October 2002 for McDermott’s legal defense fund in a lawsuit against him. He’s not biased about Iraq, right?!

Then there’s Conyers. He’s the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. Heaven help us if the Democrats retake the House majority, and he becomes Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. The far-left Conyers never met a terrorist he didn’t like.

Take the June 13 Muslim American Society fundraising dinner for Islamic Relief, a charity with links to the Muslim Brotherhood. Conyers and his wife were the guests of honor. They watched and clapped as the Sanabel Al-Quds "dancing" troop from Milwaukee—featuring boys as young as seven—sang in Arabic of martyrdom and jihad for Allah and Palestine. They didn’t need to understand Arabic, as the young boys used a rifle to simulate killing and pistol-whipping, simulated throat-slittings and beheadings, and dishonored the American flag.

The War in Iraq is a major focal point of the film. Moore shamelessly dishonors our brave soldiers. He makes fun of soldier’s musical choices in Iraq ("The Roof is on Fire") and depicts multiple wounded and dead Iraqis and soldiers raiding a home in Iraq searching for a militant. That’s what happens in war. People get wounded and killed. Moore shows the militant’s female relatives crying. "He’s a college student," they cry out in Arabic. College students would never be terrorists, would they? Tell that to the Israelis, where the "colleges," such as Bir Zeit University, are the breeding grounds for terrorists.

Very telling is the presence of the Al-Jazeera microphone in one segment of a women crying, "Allah Hu Akbar" (Allah is Great). Moore apparently thinks the sympathetic Terrorist News Network (Al-Jazeera) is the epitome of accurate news reporting.

Other BS in the Moore film:

He shows Britney Spears saying she supports the President on Iraq. As if there weren’t a host of brain-dead bimbo celebs, (Madonna, Sean Penn, Russell Simmons, Lenny Kravitz, Susan Sarandon, The Dixie Chicks, etc.), spouting off on the other side.


Moore repeatedly features Sam Kubba, of the American-Iraqi Chamber of Commerce, denouncing the War in Iraq as money-driven. But Kubba is a fringe character. Most Iraqi-Americans and their prominent leaders, such as Nabil Roumayah of the Detroit-based Iraqi Democratic Union, supported the war, whether they were Chaldeans (Christian Iraqis) or Shias.


In very selectively edited clips, Moore poses the absurd notion that the main news anchors—Peter Jennings, Dan Rather, and Ted Koppel—wholeheartedly support Bush and the War in Iraq. Jennings, Rather, and Koppel supporting the War and Bush? Puh-leeze! Has Moore forgotten the hour-long Saddam softball interview Rather did just prior to the war, Jennings’ condescending coverage and Koppel’s critical "Nightline" episodes every step of the way?


Moore exploits the grief of Lila Lipscomb, the mother of a soldier who died in Iraq. She denounces Bush and the War. But there are many mothers and relatives of US soldiers, alive and dead, who served there who don’t agree with her. Don’t look for them in this agit-prop "film."


Moore, as many misinformed "journalists" do, makes light of the claimed Bush connection between Saddam and Al-Qaeda. But what about the meeting between hijacker Mohammed Atta and Iraqi Intelligence agents in the Czech Republic before 9-11? What about the Iraqi training camp in Salman Pak where Al-Qaeda used abandoned planes to train to hijack them? What about Ramzi Youssef, the Iraqi Secret Service agent and mastermind of the 1993 WTC bombing, who is the nephew of 9-11 Al-Qaeda mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? What about Iraqi Intelligence and Secret Police (Mukhabarat) at a Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Al-Qaeda terror planning convention? These are just some connections, and there are others in "The Connection," by Stephen Hayes, that you won’t see in Moore’s silver screen screed.




A few random side notes.

1.) Hezbollah loves F9/11 and is offering to help in its distribution in the UAE. Hmmmmm interesting. Here is some more information on this (scroll down past the Finnish version for its english translation)

http://www.hiff.fi/uutiset/?id=20040609fahren




2.) At the Las Vegas premier of the film, one viewer was spat on, and then beat up by several people from MoveOn.org after he declined to accept a flier they were handing out, because he didnt agree with the film, or its message.



Finally, here are some sites you NEED to see. These sites will show you how much ofa liar Moore is, and back it up with concrete facts.

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

http://www.moorewatch.com/

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://www.moorelies.com/


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Thanks for taking the time to read all this. I hope I have saved a few minds from the abyss.

 

[NGC 3370]

Thanks for the post. Very well thought out.
I listened to half of the movie on my pc and it made me feel sick of the crap that Moore says and you can tell he is lying. i am not even American or living in the U.S and I could pick this. I didn't listen after half way. Just turned it off and chucked it out for the trash it is.The bad thing about people like him is what extremists do such as when reading the Koran where they take a section of it and take a meaning of it from one little part but don't read the whole thing which means something different.
I am all about people expressing their opinions and will listen but come on, when they mis-inform or lie to you there is only so much you can take.
I think people should hear both sides of the stories and make up your own minds. That is the best way I think.

 

[SlaughterofSoul]

I've always thought Moore was self-absorbed and full of hot air. I thought Bowling For Columbine was the biggest piece of shit documentary that I have ever seen, and I'm a documentary fan.

I have no interest in seeing this movie. He's the atypical american "journalist" sensationalizing everything, and using things out of context.

He used to be for the little man, and now he's for himself. Best quote on Moore ever, from comedian Greg Giraldo: "You shouldn't weigh 450lbs and make movies about the excess of American capitalism."

 

[5thSeason]

lol, good quote

 

[Samurai]

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only metal musician/fan who thinks Michael Moore is a big gasbag. I agree with the posts here. The material atthe URL links is extremely interesting too. Good stuff (who ssiys metal music is all numb-skulls?).

 

[thespectralsorrows]

Michael Moore is the only American with enough balls to stand up for something that's not considered popular or cool. I don't agree with everything he or anyelse says, but most of his views are very valid. I know 5thSeason likes to write nice long essays about Moore lying about everything in the movie, but 5thSeason's reality is his own viewpoint and just as much a ly as anything Moore feels and probably more so.

 

[SlaughterofSoul]

Michael Moore is the only American with enough balls to stand up for something that's not considered popular or cool. I don't agree with everything he or anyelse says, but most of his views are very valid. I know 5thSeason likes to write nice long essays about Moore lying about everything in the movie, but 5thSeason's reality is his own viewpoint and just as much a ly as anything Moore feels and probably more so.

The only American, or the only American that has a public profile as big as his? I'm sure there are plenty of people that have the same point of view as Moore, but they aren't in the public eye like he is, and can get his point of views out there quite like he can.

 

[Scourge of Malice]

It sucks that many of you can't handle the sad truth about this country. I don't blindly trust everything michael moore says, but (atleast in fareinheit, i know a lot of stuff was bullshit in columbine) you really can't deny what he has to say. That first post is rubbish, why don't you actually tell us why you think he's wrong instead of someone else doing it for you on a webpage?

 

[5thSeason]

Michael Moore is the only American with enough balls to stand up for something that's not considered popular or cool.

Hes not standing up for anything, hes trying to make money, and the way he has chosen to do it is shameful. How can you support what moore says (especially in F911) or even believe it for that matter when there are hard FACTS that prove him to be a liar?

 

[A Dying Breed]

Yeah, supporting the war, and/or President Bush, is so popular and cool, especially among young people. Give me a fucking break. Only a Moore supporter would be stupid enough to respond to an onslaught of facts with a rebuttal so utterly shallow and pointless.

Moore's supporters are a big, ignorant batch of bandwagon jumpers who simply refuse to acknowledge facts that don't support their views. (And there are plenty, as any informed person is aware, regardless of where they stand on the political spectrum.) How the fuck is everything 5thSeason posted in refutation of F911 a "ly?" He posted a list of plain, simple facts. The fact that some or all of it was taken off a web page does nothing to change this. It's not "5thSeason's reality," it's just plain fucking reality.

This asshole has openly supported the terrorist insurgency in Iraq, comparing them to the Minutemen of the American Revolution. The Minutemen didn't decapitate prisoners, murder large numbers of their own civilians, or seek to establish a repressive, fundamentalist state, and to compare them to Islamic terrorists is a fucking disgrace. Regardless of whether or not you agreed with the war, how big of an idiot do you have to be to root against your own country? And what does that say for his braindead supporters, the majority of whom probably aren't even aware of these comments from their hero- or simply choose not to acknowledge them. It is amusing that he plays up this phony sympathy for our armed forces and their families at the same time he ridicules them in his film and publically roots for our enemies. Such a great, brave man.

Can't handle the sad truth about this country. No shit. The saddest part is that so many idiots like yourself can't pry your mouths off this trator piece of shit's balls.

 

[Scourge of Malice]

"Can't handle the sad truth about this country. No shit. The saddest part is that so many idiots like yourself can't pry your mouths off this trator piece of shit's balls."

And it's sad that you can't open your mind to what is really happening in this country. Sure, Moore's a douche, but his points need to be brought to our attention.

 

[A Dying Breed]

The Bush family does business with the Saudi royals, what a shocking revelation!

Being the ignorant, herd mentality, flag waving dumbass that I am, I clearly stand no chance of effectively arguing with someone with a mind as open as yours. But just for the hell of it, I challenge you to take a look at Christopher Hitchens' review. It's posted at the top of this page. I challenge you to refute anything in it. Anything. And don't give me some blowoff sissy bullshit about how that's just his opinion, and similar nonsense. Refute ANYTHING in it using logic or fact, and I will recant, and hail Moore as my savior.

 

[TB666]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156203

 

[lord667]

It's a shame that this integritiless greenhoover is getting all the limelight, because most of the points he's turning a buck on are quite good, and he's just making them seem less credible.

Regarding the "old canard" about how Bush stole the election, I'm sorry, is there some sort of moral Statute of Limitations I'm not aware of? That somehow it becomes OK to have rigged an election if it was a sufficient length of time in the past? I'm glad people are still talking about it. People need to be reminded that Bush's presidency was tainted from the get-go, else they might start seeing him as the great statesman he thinks he is.

 

[thespectralsorrows]

"It must be evident to anyone, despite the rapid-fire way in which Moore's direction eases the audience hastily past the contradictions, that these discrepant scatter shots do not cohere at any point. Either the Saudis run U.S. policy (through family ties or overwhelming economic interest), or they do not. As allies and patrons of the Taliban regime, they either opposed Bush's removal of it, or they did not." By Christopher Hitchens

Logic says, yes the movie does cohere to one particular point. The movie doesn't say anything about Saudis running US policy, but that they are buttbuddies with the Bush administration. No, the Saudi government doesn't want to destroy the US or Bush, why would they considering how rich we are making them. The point was that since Osama Bin Laden was a relative of these people and we have always given him more leeway then with other terrorists. Before you say it, yes The Clinton and old Bush administrations also allowed Osama to roam free. This Chris Hitchens dude needs to read up on what he's saying instead of just printing his first thoughts in the form of a 10 page essay next time around.

The Bush family does business with the Saudi royals, what a shocking revelation!

Being the ignorant, herd mentality, flag waving dumbass that I am, I clearly stand no chance of effectively arguing with someone with a mind as open as yours. But just for the hell of it, I challenge you to take a look at Christopher Hitchens' review. It's posted at the top of this page. I challenge you to refute anything in it. Anything. And don't give me some blowoff sissy bullshit about how that's just his opinion, and similar nonsense. Refute ANYTHING in it using logic or fact, and I will recant, and hail Moore as my savior.

 

[AlphaTemplar]

Michael Moore is the only American with enough balls to stand up for something that's not considered popular or cool. I don't agree with everything he or anyelse says, but most of his views are very valid. I know 5thSeason likes to write nice long essays about Moore lying about everything in the movie, but 5thSeason's reality is his own viewpoint and just as much a ly as anything Moore feels and probably more so.

I'm in complete agreement.

 

[5thSeason]

It's a shame that this integritiless greenhoover is getting all the limelight, because most of the points he's turning a buck on are quite good, and he's just making them seem less credible.

Regarding the "old canard" about how Bush stole the election, I'm sorry, is there some sort of moral Statute of Limitations I'm not aware of? That somehow it becomes OK to have rigged an election if it was a sufficient length of time in the past? I'm glad people are still talking about it. People need to be reminded that Bush's presidency was tainted from the get-go, else they might start seeing him as the great statesman he thinks he is.

OK seeing as how you dont live in america, let me go over this for you...

In the 2000 election Vice President Al Gore ran against George W Bush, the Governor or Texas. The election was very close, and it all came down to florida. The first count of the votes said Bush had won, and Al Gore called Bush to concede, then after he learned how close the race was, called to retract and wait for a recount (which is totally understandable). After the recount, Bush was still ahead. After learning that the overseas military votes had not yet been counted, Gore demanded another recount, which was given to him. When the military votes started to come in, and the majority of them going to Bush, Gore demanded that the military votes not be allowed because they were late. After several other recounts involving "hanging, and pregnant chads" Bush was STILL winning the election, and eventually it went to the supreme court, where they ruled that Bush had indeed won the election. Even after this happened, there were still recounts going on, and there are STILL recounts going on, and Bush is still winning.

Now some liberals (like moore) say Bush stole the election, because he brother was the governor of florida. Ok so let me get this straight... Bush, the governor of Texas, and his Brother the Governor of Florida had the right connections, and stole the election? Let me remind everyone that Gore was the sitting VICE PRESIDENT, and had the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES on his side. If anyone had the connections to attempt such a thing... it was Gore. And also, on a side note, the people who claim Bush stole the election, are the same people who always talk about how "dumb" and "stupid" he is. How could someone who is "dumb and "stupid" steal a presidental election? make up your fucking minds.

 

[AlphaTemplar]

i posted the following message in another thread, but its worth posting agian.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a LOT to say about F9/11 and Moore. I beg each and every one of you to take 5 minutes and read what I am posting, dont just skip around. It is important that you read all of the information I am posting...


F911 starts out by recounting the tired liberal-left canard about George W. Bush "stealing" the 2000 Presidential Election. Gee, we haven’t heard that one before. And for those who actually read the paper and peruse bookstores, there’s little else new in this waste of celluloid.

Moore shows endless shots of Bush and administration officials being made up for TV appearances, montages of Bush golfing and on vacation, a shot of Bush with his dog – all accompanied by the sarcastic vocal commentary of Michael Moore. (You didn’t expect the self-important, schlubby Moore to spare us and stay off-screen, did you?)

In Moore’s world, liberal politicians never get made up or hair coiffed for TV appearances. In Moore’s world, Bill Clinton never golfed, never vacationed for months on Cape Cod and Martha’s Vineyard, never had a dog named "Buddy" – all while Slick Willie had the opportunity (several times) to have Osama Bin Laden handed over to him, but declined.

But that’s Moore’s world. He has learned the Costas Gavras (the famous Socialist-Communist director who produced Anti-American films) technique well. Bush and other administration "villains"--so cast by Moore--are shot from down below, to make them look even more evil.

Moore spends much time on Bin Laden family members flying out of the US when the rest of America was grounded, right after 9-11. Showing a clip of Khalil Bin Laden at the airport, a chyron on the screen cleverly reads "days after 9-11." But, how many days? In fact, while some Bin Ladens did get to fly out early, most of the Bin Laden family flew out of America, after the rest of America could already fly. Moore says the FBI was not allowed to interview them, but in fact, the FBI was allowed to interview them and chose not to. That is disturbing, but it’s not what Moore "reported".

The close relationship between the Bush family, including the current President, and the Saudi Royal Family is troubling. But it’s nothing new, and Moore offers no alternative. The Saudi Royals are, no doubt, despicable. They foster and fund madrasas, mosques, and clerics who preach the death of the West, Christians, and Jews. They hold telethons to fund the "martyrs" and allowed Al-Qaeda to grow. Women can’t drive, and non-Muslims are the equivalent of slaves. Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar is slimy and dishonest.

But the precarious Saudi Royal Family is better than the alternative--the Saudi masses who hate us even more and who love Osama Bin Laden.

If Crown Prince Abdullah is deposed by its extremist population, Bin Laden is the most popular replacement. Given the large Saudi investment in our economy (upon which Moore touches) and large holdings in our banking system, a change in Saudi leadership could result in the collapse of our economy. $2 a gallon oil? That would be a pleasant memory from the past, and only rich phonies like Michael Moore would be able to afford to drive. The Saudis are the largest producers of oil, and the radical Saudi population would see to it that we go back to the horse and buggy.

That is why it’s important for Bush to remain on good terms with the sleazy country that is the home to public beheadings and 15 of the 19 hijackers. Leftists from Moore’s "Amen" crowd won’t let us drill for oil in Alaska, so we can get away from dependence upon the Saudis. Not a peep about that in F911.

There's an easy alternative to the Saudi Royal Family- it's called creating a positive image of America to the Saudi public. Currently, much of the world sees the US (correctly) as arrogant, stupid, obese, greedy warmongers. Rather than improving the already tenuous relationships between the two countries via respect for Saudi beleifs, monetary aid, and other acts of kindness, Bush's reckless and unilateralistic policies have dashed relationships to an incredible low. As too greater oil prices, a radical Muslim state could very well drive oil prices up, but the impact of an intelligent, democratic regime would likely have very little (if any) impact on oil prices. Ask an economist. And, btw, Alaska's oil would give America about 2-5 years of fuel, far from a dependable alternative to Middle Eastern oil.

And while there’s plenty of factual material to use against the Saudis, Moore fabricates on that, too. He claims that the US Secret Service’s Uniformed Division protects only the Saudi Embassy, no others. That’s just plain false. Any tourist to Washington, DC, will see plenty of Secret Service Police guarding all of the other foreign embassies which request such protection. Other than guarding the White House and some federal buildings, it’s the largest use of personnel by the Secret Service’s Uniformed Division.

Since Moore lies about little things like that, what else has he lied about in this master docu-fakery?

Then there are Moore’s Congressional "experts." F911 features extensive interviews with two of the biggest wackos ever elected to Congress, Reps. Jim McDermott and John Conyers, both far-left Democrats. They spout off against everything from the USA Patriot Act to the War on Iraq.

and both deserve to be "spurted against". The war on Iraq has cost thousands of lives, and for what purpose? To spend innumerable billions to keep a standing army in Iraq, all the while leaving the US vulnerable at home? The current Iraqi government won't last past a few years until a radical muslim takeover, thanks in large part to the utterly assenine way the wars in Iraq in Afganistan thanks to you-know-who.

Meanwhile, the so called "Patriot Act" should in fact be called the "Xenophobe Act" because that's exactly what it is. It does little to catch terrorists, according to Time and The Economist, while frustrating hundreds of thousands of perfectly innocent immigrants. My Spanish teacher (who is Columbian) hasn't visited, or been visited by, her parents since 9/11 because of these uneeded laws, and her mail seems to always be opened already. I also has a remarkable similarity to the infamous Alien and Sedition acts of 1798 (I think).

But he fails to tell us that Jim McDermott was on the take from Saddam Hussein. McDermott was one of three Congressmen who went on Saddam’s propaganda tour of Iraq in Fall 2002. The trip was funded by Life for Relief and Development (LRD), a "charity" which laundered money to terrorist group Hamas’ Jordanian operation. LRD is funded in part by Shakir Al-Khafaji, a man who did about $70 million in business with Saddamthrough his Falcon Trading Group company (based in South Africa). LRD’s Iraqi offices were raided by US troops last week, and the Detroit-area "charity" is suspected of funding uprisings, such as the one in Fallujah. Its officials bragged of doing so at a recent private US fundraiser.

Mr. Alkhafaji, one of two Americans named in Iraqi newspapers as a participant in Saddam’s "Oil for Food" scam, gave Congressman McDermott $5,000 in October 2002 for McDermott’s legal defense fund in a lawsuit against him. He’s not biased about Iraq, right?!

And did you find all this out through an unbiased, politically neutral source? It's kinda funny how LRD officials were bragging about funding uprisings at a private fundraiser, considering that there's no media to a) provide the information, or b) confirm the information. It reminds of one time some preps at my school created a story about my grabbing their asses when I saw them after a movie which, oddly enough, I didn't see.

Recently, LRD (which abbreviates themselves LIFE) "distributed food packages to 11.500 refugees" in Afghanistan and "over 5,000 food baskets to the needy in Baghdad, Mosil, Kirkok, Karbala, and Basra", in addition to working with the UN to distriibute wheelchairs to the handicapped in Afghanistan. They've been recognized by Bill Clinton (who 5th Season would probably tell us is a terrorist), and numerous senators. http://www.lifeusa.org . I'm having doubts that they're funding terrorists.

Then there’s Conyers. He’s the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. Heaven help us if the Democrats retake the House majority, and he becomes Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. The far-left Conyers never met a terrorist he didn’t like.

Take the June 13 Muslim American Society fundraising dinner for Islamic Relief, a charity with links to the Muslim Brotherhood. Conyers and his wife were the guests of honor. They watched and clapped as the Sanabel Al-Quds "dancing" troop from Milwaukee—featuring boys as young as seven—sang in Arabic of martyrdom and jihad for Allah and Palestine. They didn’t need to understand Arabic, as the young boys used a rifle to simulate killing and pistol-whipping, simulated throat-slittings and beheadings, and dishonored the American flag.

Would you (and could you) substantiate the claim that Conyers "never met a terrorist that he didn't like. Its completely unnecessary to accuse your political opposites of being terrorists or criminals. Bush is a bad president, but at least I'm not making up bullshit and saying that he has a master plan to conquer the Middle East in order to receive cheap oil, pocket the profits, and use them to make a clone army of nuke-touting supersoldiers. And, again, who was the source for your claim that Muslim boys sang and danced about killing americans? I doubt that it's firsthand knowledge. I'll beleive it when I see it reported by a neutral source.

I'll respond to the rest later...Getting kinda tired of lookin stuff up right.

 

[AlphaTemplar]

OK seeing as how you dont live in america, let me go over this for you...

In the 2000 election Vice President Al Gore ran against George W Bush, the Governor or Texas. The election was very close, and it all came down to florida. The first count of the votes said Bush had won, and Al Gore called Bush to concede, then after he learned how close the race was, called to retract and wait for a recount (which is totally understandable). After the recount, Bush was still ahead. After learning that the overseas military votes had not yet been counted, Gore demanded another recount, which was given to him. When the military votes started to come in, and the majority of them going to Bush, Gore demanded that the military votes not be allowed because they were late. After several other recounts involving "hanging, and pregnant chads" Bush was STILL winning the election, and eventually it went to the supreme court, where they ruled that Bush had indeed won the election. Even after this happened, there were still recounts going on, and there are STILL recounts going on, and Bush is still winning.

Now some liberals (like moore) say Bush stole the election, because he brother was the governor of florida. Ok so let me get this straight... Bush, the governor of Texas, and his Brother the Governor of Florida had the right connections, and stole the election? Let me remind everyone that Gore was the sitting VICE PRESIDENT, and had the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES on his side. If anyone had the connections to attempt such a thing... it was Gore. And also, on a side note, the people who claim Bush stole the election, are the same people who always talk about how "dumb" and "stupid" he is. How could someone who is "dumb and "stupid" steal a presidental election? make up your fucking minds.

Hmmm...I find it interesting that you claim Bush's brother being governor of the disputed state, Florida, isn't an issue, when above you use tenuous and fourthhand connections to "prove" that two liberal senators Micheal Moore interviewed are actually sympathizers with extremist muslim and anti-American movements in the middle east. It's quite possible (though certainly not provable) that Jeb rigged the election in Florida. And, as to Bush being stupid, he is. He got a C average in high school, and was admitted to Yale purely because of his dad's connections. However, it doesn't take a genius to cheat. Winning honestly takes more skill and intelligence. But what bothers me, and many liberals both in the US and across the world, is that Gore won the popular vote. More people wanted Gore to become president. Thus, Bush stole the election because of an outdated and convoluted voting system, not because his brother rigged the votes (though Bush has done more dishonest things)