Mix in progress

Ermz

Ermz

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Apr 5, 2002
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Melbourne, Australia
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Figured I'd do my bit to liven up the forum!

Here's something I've been tracking with a random bunch of guys (as engineer, not player). I took a few hours and have a rough mix going and wouldn't mind if you guys would share feedback.

So far I'm mainly trying to improve on the guitars and bass... I want a fatter low-end, and I want to get some more balls into those rhythm guitars. They were a Bogner ecstacy through a bogner 2x12 cab and I can't help but feel they should sound bigger. I think next week we may fatten them up with a Soldano and see what gives.

(Yes, all the autotune in the world wasn't gonna save the vocal tracks, sadly!)

http://users.tpg.com.au/afiteam/darylsong_inprogress2.mp3
 
Hey Moonlapse!
First listen, sounds pretty solid to me!
You're looking to fatten up the low end....when I listened, I had this in mind, and was wondering, have you tried bringing the bass down in the mix a few Db, not necessarily leveling it with the guitars, but just under it, to possibly bring out the guitars a little more? That's my first thought.
Adding a Soldano track or two may be the answer. What about reamping through the Bogner set up, adding a little more lowend at the amp?
Just thoughts....:headbang:
 
The bass does seem a bit high, it sounds less like it's supporting the guitars in the way that I normally hear it - lowering it may help, but it seems like it's EQ'd in a way that doesn't have it 'settled' below the guitars. The bass is very easy to hear when it's done like this; Cynic had the same kind of thing with their bass tone - but everyone was playing something entirely different all the time, so that was necessary, whereas this seems like it would be suited better by a less up-front bass. Perhaps a treble cut and low mid boost, I don't know, just shove it in the back a bit more, however that happens.

As far as the guitar lacking bass, if you're missing bass with a Bogner setup I'd think something was wrong somewhere. Soldano might help, but I'd go for a more middy amp than that while I was at it.

I see what you're saying about the singer - is he singing from the throat, or with his larynx in his temples, or what? It does sound like he's struggling to keep the notes all together (very fluttery in parts, certainly less repulsive with autotune but still not something I'd want to hear in a final mix) - and now for a more general complaint about modern rock singing, what the hell happened to singing from the diaphragm? Everyone sounds like they're trying really hard to be prepubescent choir boys again, it's disgusting.

That's all I could say, sounds much better than a fried Sound Blaster card - keep us up to date.

Jeff
 
Sounds pretty good, Moonlapse.

I can see exactly what Steve is talking about with the Bass needing to be brought down a couple DB in the mix.

One thing I personally think would really make the song more seem more full, if you want to play around with it. Around the 1:00 minute mark, the second verse I'm guessing, I would try throwing in a harmony on the vocals, and octave higher if possible.

Other than the bass being a little too loud, I think the mix sounds pretty good. Now only if I could get my mixes to sound like that......damn straight into the soundcard shit. :lol:
 
Thanks guys!

About the bass... yeah, I think I may have been refferencing the wrong material. I was listen to Nickelback's 'The Long Road' which has this amazing, fat bass sound. I was sort of trying to achieve that 'below the kick' sub bass quality that it had. It may be worthwhile to just treat it in a more standard way as you guys are suggesting.

It's really just an experiment for me... this mix. It's my first rock thing, and I'm more accustomed to mixing bass in the way Andy Sneap does... I just figured something 'phatter' would be the go here.

Once again, thanks a lot for the suggestions guys.

I've made a note to let more balls from the Bogner through. We definitely had more than enough low-end, believe me, I think my EQ methods to get rid of those muddy low-mids may have killed a bit too much body though. Also, it sounds a bit shrill at the moment. Just need to smoothen it out a little and get it sitting better.

I think once we have the 2 soldano tracks down, I'll have a better point to go from.
 
Have you tried using the speaker-wired-in-reverse mic? That might throw some serious depth in there, if you can't find diagrams for that thing I'll see what I can find.

Jeff
 
i suggest taking the bass down alittle. also if you can re-record it have the bass player really dig in ( finger playing require some consitency) also try micing the bass amp and not just doing DI (if you hadn't already). The guitars sound really clean. the leads are fantastic sounding. I have also been noticing that fat bass tone on rock records tends to have very subtle overdrive on it so the low end is consistent and compressed.
 
That said, I believe there are also a number of ways to compress the bottom part of the bass track (like C4, MaxxBass... hell, any multi-band comp should do the trick) if you don't want the grindy sound, or if you're looking for the piano tone.

Have you tried any of this yet? Any luck so far?

Jeff
 
Tomorrow we're going back in and I think we're redoing all of the guitars (excluding solos).

He's bringing in both his Soldano head & cab and Bogner head and cab and a junction box so we can run through both. We'll probably have a blend in each speaker, and then for choruses we'll quad track. I just really want to nail some nice balls in the guitar sound.

The bass I'll deal with after we have the guitars tracked properly. It's something I'm gonna spend a good deal of time on to make sure it fits well. So we'll see how this develops I guess..

I'm keeping an ongoing notepad of things that need to be improved on in the mix and expect to address all of them by the end.
 
hey Moonlapse this is prolli a stupid question but i just got into engineering and i was just wondering about panning.. how is it on that track, do u think it affects the sound alot more? coz i havnt tried panning on anything recorded just alot of live stuff like panning the guitars slightly to one side and the bass slitghtly to the opposite end
 
Panning is your friend. Stereo is there for a reason, and it always helps if you utilize the medium you're mixing for to its full potential. Stuff on that mix is panned all over the place. Rhythm guitars hard left and right, solo guitars a bit off centre, drums all over the place (trying to emulate drummer's perspective in terms of positioning), backing vocals to either side.

Space things out, your mix will instantly open up and breathe more.

Don't pan bass. Unless you're trying to do some effect, a solid bass track should always be dead center.

Experiment with panning guitars to opposite sides. Remember, when you mix, you're trying to create space. So any elements that fight with each other, try to pan them to give them their own space.
 
We tracked the new guitars and stuff, I did a real quick mix tonight:
http://users.tpg.com.au/afiteam/darylsong_inprogress3.mp3

It's safe to say I'm gonna keep working on it. I'm not even sure if it's any better than the original at the moment. Not entirely happy. I'll see what I come up with as I stab away at it for a few days. I hope to approach the mix tomorrow with fresh ears (and lacking one major headache, as it is now).

I think over time I've actually become worse at mixing guitars... it's sort of become a formulaic process that just gets me mediocre results. I mean, the first thing I'd ever recorded for a band had the largest sounding rhythm guitars out of any of my stuff. It's odd... but what can you do.
 
I usually like to hear bass under the guitars when they're being used as reinforcement, I don't know if I'd take one center over two on each side. That said, I know I'm abnormal.

As for guitar panning, definitely utilize all of it. Listen to a Frank Sinatra album, then listen to Terria by Devin Townsend - both are great at what they are, but old mono stuff doesn't hold a candle to the power and clarity of properly-used stereo. Again, I'm not the best at this (I just go 100L-80L-80R-100R and put other shit around that, not very inventive) but I don't know of too many great-sounding records with guitars stacked on vocals stacked on drum after drum after drum because someone was too lazy to move the little position slider.

Jeff
 
We've just started a new session with the same guy. The track will probably be more boring, but we've pulled some good sounds on this one. The rhythm guitars are razor sharp. We used the Soldano rig almost exclusively this time around.
 
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