Mixing is HARD - 'Mixerman'

[Pedro Teixeira]

One of the worst parts of mixing for me is hitting that point of diminishing returns. First couple of hours you spend on a mix tends to be the most productive. The rest can be hard fought. In really bad cases you can stretch that last 10% on for days, and half the time you're just making things worse.

That is very true Ermz and this is where the physical and health situation come into play. I've done mixes when I was a bit sleep deprived and wasnt eating very well, not only did it take twice as long but my concentration levels compared to those of a goldfish and very very easily I lost perspective on what I was doing and had no idea what I was listening to anymore. Last mix I did for example, was having a great sleeping schedule, felt refreshed everyday, had at least an apple a day, drank loads of water, etc, Did the first mix of a release in 5 hours and it was done! Sounding great, exactly what I had envisioned.
It is very true that mixing is hard, but our mental and physical health takes a HUGE role in it

 

[xturbox]

discipline is the key in any profession, not only in mixing. one has to know not only your tools, but when you body can do things efficiently as well.

 

[Williamn]

One of the worst parts of mixing for me is hitting that point of diminishing returns. First couple of hours you spend on a mix tends to be the most productive. The rest can be hard fought. In really bad cases you can stretch that last 10% on for days, and half the time you're just making things worse.

True that.
Also what I need to get better at is knowing the limits of the raw tracks.

 

[Soundlurker]

True that.
Also what I need to get better at is knowing the limits of the raw tracks.

That's a very good point. It's good to know when to keep the original tracks and when to say screw it and reamp and use samlpes. You can do miracles with less than ideal tracks but if you want your mix to sound impressive you have to be a bit unscrupulous from time to time.

When I was starting out I always went for the cool tones and samples and didn't mind my bad mixing skills (muddy lows, shrill highs, botched dynamics...all the good stuff). Lately I had been investing a lot of effort to mix well but I also made the bad decision to stick with some mediocre or unimpressive tones/drums. I think I can finally feel confident in how much I rely on mixing and how much on careful selection of tones and samples and it feels great - the two elements are complementing each other and I'm not wasting so much time polishing turds.

 

[Ermz]

Deadlines are all good and well, but I tell ya sometimes the worst thing about mixing is the marathon in order to get everything done on time. I'm coming off 18 hours straight right now... feel like a zombie... need to sleep then mix another track immediately when waking. This is when having to work fast is NOT good, nor healthy, haha.

 

[fatalforce]

I'm glad i saw this. i have been nitpicking a current mix way too much. This is something I need to work on personally. Thanks for sharing

 

[Kazrog]

I've done some testing on myself with regard to this. I always "Save As" every time I change anything about a mix, and I bounce mixes often. Using that approach, it's easy to look back on your history of a mix and see what happens over time with your continued obsession over a mix.

In my experience, the first day mix is (in hindsight, based on many projects) almost always 99% ballpark if not perfect. After that, the more time I spend on a mix, things get exponentially worse. I've learned to stop spending as much time on mixes, and more time committing, and I've been happier ever since.

If you're having to spend a ton of time on a mix, you're most likely trying to compensate for something that went wrong during tracking (especially if an outside engineer / band member did the tracking in questionable conditions, so often the case these days) - stop worrying about it, move on to the next project. No amount of processing fixes bad tracks.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Yeah I don't know how you can spend any more than 4-6 hours on a single song. Do you count editing, vocal tuning etc as mixing?

I'm only mixing a couple times a month but I've noticed my last couple mixes have been better than ever and have taken less time. My average would be 3-4 hours with 1 hour on revisions a few days later. If it takes longer than that I'm better off starting over.

I highly recommend everyone read this article from Charles Dye - The Mixing Learning Curve. This really changed my perspective on learning the craft and it was really inspiring.

 

[Audiosprite]

^ nice post from dye there, definitely hit me where i needed it.

 

[Ermz]

Yeah I don't know how you can spend any more than 4-6 hours on a single song. Do you count editing, vocal tuning etc as mixing?

Nope. Automating a song alone can take me up to 4 hours. When you ride every instrument relationship the whole way through, and then have to adjust as they all find their place, it can be time consuming. Not to mention crafting FX, making sure the delay and verb throws are working well, and the song is showcasing the focal elements all the time.

If we're talking a template mix that defines the sound and balance of an entire CD, then I like to take 2 days. About 2 to 3 hours is spent just prepping the session and working out the drum samples/sound, this is provided that all the bass grit and guitar reamping stuff has been done ahead of time too. At the end of that day I'll have a rough picture of how it should sound, and the next day with fresh ears I'll tend to refine it into something resembling the finished product.

 

[fitzrangerhoodngarb]

Nope. Automating a song alone can take me up to 4 hours. When you ride every instrument relationship the whole way through, and then have to adjust as they all find their place, it can be time consuming. Not to mention crafting FX, making sure the delay and verb throws are working well, and the song is showcasing the focal elements all the time.

If we're talking a template mix that defines the sound and balance of an entire CD, then I like to take 2 days. About 2 to 3 hours is spent just prepping the session and working out the drum samples/sound, this is provided that all the bass grit and guitar reamping stuff has been done ahead of time too. At the end of that day I'll have a rough picture of how it should sound, and the next day with fresh ears I'll tend to refine it into something resembling the finished product.

That sure is some stamina you got there. My eyesight is going blurry and rsi kicking in just contemplating that.

My template mixes take 5-7 minutes Okay maybe 10 if I need to patch a couple of extra boxes in or 15 if I'm mixing to stems or have some fancy routing happening.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Nope. Automating a song alone can take me up to 4 hours. When you ride every instrument relationship the whole way through, and then have to adjust as they all find their place, it can be time consuming. Not to mention crafting FX, making sure the delay and verb throws are working well, and the song is showcasing the focal elements all the time.

If we're talking a template mix that defines the sound and balance of an entire CD, then I like to take 2 days. About 2 to 3 hours is spent just prepping the session and working out the drum samples/sound, this is provided that all the bass grit and guitar reamping stuff has been done ahead of time too. At the end of that day I'll have a rough picture of how it should sound, and the next day with fresh ears I'll tend to refine it into something resembling the finished product.

OK now this I get. You have the room, gear and ears to appreciate the subtleties. Everything counts to you. Your rough mixes sound better than what half this forum on their best days.

On the other hand, you could probably skip half the stuff you do (not that you should if you think its worth the effort) and still have a fantastic mix. You're spending half your time doing the last 5% of the work.

My post was more directed at the guys that go around in circles due to a problem, or distractions or inexperience.

I admit I'm lazy with a few things. I haven't built my own custom drum library, I'm not picky about drum samples at all, its either better than what I had or its not. The first one I find that is I go with and move on to some other task. It's just unimportant in the big picture. I'm sure my thoughts on this will change when I am forced to be competitive and I'm doing this every day. I don't have enough to work on yet to really accelerate through the learning curve.

Automation definitely takes time, I'm starting to do more but it's not much more than vocals, reverb send for vocals or guitars, room mics and large chunks of guitar parts.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Nope. Automating a song alone can take me up to 4 hours. When you ride every instrument relationship the whole way through, and then have to adjust as they all find their place, it can be time consuming. Not to mention crafting FX, making sure the delay and verb throws are working well, and the song is showcasing the focal elements all the time.

If we're talking a template mix that defines the sound and balance of an entire CD, then I like to take 2 days. About 2 to 3 hours is spent just prepping the session and working out the drum samples/sound, this is provided that all the bass grit and guitar reamping stuff has been done ahead of time too. At the end of that day I'll have a rough picture of how it should sound, and the next day with fresh ears I'll tend to refine it into something resembling the finished product.

Plus infinity. I can't imagine doing the first mix of an album in 4-6 hours, even if it was three-chord punk rock with well recorded tracks. I could get the basic mix down in that time, but after that I need a little break to refresh my ears, and then it's time to start playing around with the details that IMO make a mix either interesting or dull as hell.