Mixing With Massive Bus Comp Gain Reduction

[Ermz]

Hey guys,

One of the things I'm still trying to nut out is how to maintain a cohesive mix when running into the GSSL at 30ms attack, 100ms rel, 4:1 and around 6 to 12dB of gain reduction. I can do 6dB if in 2:1 mode, or auto-release, but I just can't get it sounding like anything other than a pumpy mess otherwise.

Have any of you managed this? If so, how? I'm starting to think the GSSL just isn't capable of keeping the mix together under these settings.

Thanks.

 

[mjlaudio]

unless you are mixing on an ssl 4000 g/g+ you are not going to be able to make it work like you are hearing about from the big mixers.....the balistics of the meter are way different on the various rackmount boxes....especially the kit type ones. There is a phase shift in the console that happens which widens the mix and the console compressor will narrow it.....I have been mixing on a neve v3 for years with a rackmount ssl comp on the mix buss...the second it goes past 4 on the meter on 10ms, 4, auto or .1 the mix collapses.....same with 30ms....but i can do it all the time on the ssl g+, Ive even used a smart instead of the onboard comp and i can hit it harder but it has alot to do with the console.,,,,,,,other people may have figured it out but i gave up....I dont even use master buss compression anymore.

 

[greyskull]

yeah.. i was just doing a mix with a smart c2, and past 3-4 db it was a pumpy mess. that was on 30 ms attack auto release 2:1 i think

 

[crillemannen]

I've read on gearslutz that Smart c1 sounds more like an SSL 4k then the C2. So maybe the C1 can hit the mixes harder

 

[Lasse Lammert]

but the C1 doesn't have that awesome dual-mono function

I think alot has to do with how the tracks are being processed BEFORE they hit the 2bus

@mjlaudio: interesting and informative post, thanks!
good to see a low-post member posting something other than the typical "need J***** presetz" crap!

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I love how that sounds when pulled off properly, but I haven't managed to get similar results myself, not even close. I have only tried it ITB, though, but I don't think it's just a matter of using some sort of Holy Grail outboard compressor. Please post your results from further experimenting, I'd love to get some more insight on this

 

[soundsunderground]

does the gssl have a sidechain? I would sidechain some lows out, maybe everything under 200hz to prevent pumping at those extreme settings

 

[amarshism]

I've had better luck with 10ms attack and longer release times. Still doesn't work well for me though and you can rly hear it stressing the mix. That's with the waves ssl buscomp. I have managed to get to 6db gr pretty well but nothing too drastic. Tried the api2500 and it was more bombastic but not to my liking. Despite the labelling the release seems alot slower than
it says to my ears.

 

[slashvanyoung]

unless you are mixing on an ssl 4000 g/g+ you are not going to be able to make it work like you are hearing about from the big mixers.....the balistics of the meter are way different on the various rackmount boxes....especially the kit type ones. There is a phase shift in the console that happens which widens the mix and the console compressor will narrow it.....I have been mixing on a neve v3 for years with a rackmount ssl comp on the mix buss...the second it goes past 4 on the meter on 10ms, 4, auto or .1 the mix collapses.....same with 30ms....but i can do it all the time on the ssl g+, Ive even used a smart instead of the onboard comp and i can hit it harder but it has alot to do with the console.,,,,,,,other people may have figured it out but i gave up....I dont even use master buss compression anymore.

Quality post!

Ermin, that might just be your answer. The layout of the compressor is rather simple so it seems plausible that the clones come pretty close to the original (even if some parts are substituted because they became rare). But who knows what exactly happens before the signal hits the 2buss.

Would be cool to hear a comparison between the GSSL, the XLogic and straight from a 4400.

 

[crillemannen]

unless you are mixing on an ssl 4000 g/g+ you are not going to be able to make it work like you are hearing about from the big mixers.....the balistics of the meter are way different on the various rackmount boxes....especially the kit type ones. There is a phase shift in the console that happens which widens the mix and the console compressor will narrow it.....I have been mixing on a neve v3 for years with a rackmount ssl comp on the mix buss...the second it goes past 4 on the meter on 10ms, 4, auto or .1 the mix collapses.....same with 30ms....but i can do it all the time on the ssl g+, Ive even used a smart instead of the onboard comp and i can hit it harder but it has alot to do with the console.,,,,,,,other people may have figured it out but i gave up....I dont even use master buss compression anymore.

Interesting indeed But there got to be 1 rack compressor that can smash the bus with 6-8db of GR without destroying the mix.

Has anyone tested the Nail?? Seems to be praised over at GS

 

[mjlaudio]

oh yeah the smart I was using was the C1 it wasn't so much that it sounded better than the one in the G+, just that it was the one thing in the room I was used to.


The C2 on crush on guitars with no/very little real gain reduction is awesome!



@Lasse Yeah im mostly a lurker here.

 

[kev]

I heard the EMI compressors at Abbey Road take off insane DB. I havent heard much about the plugin around these parts though.

 

[C_F_H_13]

I think the other main component you're forgetting (or simply maybe overlooking), is that guys like Randy who do this compress the shit out of everything before it even hits the compressor as well.

Nothing really pops out before he hits the buss comp, it's all squeezed within an inch of its life. That way when you look at his bus comp meter, it's more floating within a 1-2 db range then pumping with the music.

Because I've been running into the same problems (and I'm on an SSL!) I've actually started working with the Michael Bauer ABCD multi buss compression instead and I'm liking that a lot more! My setup is WAY simpler then his, but I can definitely see the benefits.

 

[Melodeath]

Firstly, what's the point of aiming for a certain amount of gain reduction, especially if it winds up sounding bad? Just experimentation?

Secondly, what's the point of 6dB of reduction if the needle is only moving between 1-2dB? You could get the same result at lower GR. For example, wouldn't it technically be the same as long as you were getting at least 2dB gain reduction, unless the knee on the SSL is really soft or something?

 

[C_F_H_13]

Firstly, what's the point of aiming for a certain amount of gain reduction, especially if it winds up sounding bad? Just experimentation?

Experimenting with another mixers techniques.

Secondly, what's the point of 6dB of reduction if the needle is only moving between 1-2dB? You could get the same result at lower GR. For example, wouldn't it technically be the same as long as you were getting at least 2dB gain reduction, unless the knee on the SSL is really soft or something?

SSL buss compressors drastically change in sound the more you push em.

 

[Melodeath]

Ok that makes sense. I was just thinking, if you're getting constant heavy gain reduction, it should sound the same but quieter as constant less gain reduction. But that's not taking into account that analog gear probably sounds different at different levels.

Can you explain the ABCD multi-buss compression, btw? I've searched google and I see a lot of discussion about it, but no explanation of what it is (besides in German)

 

[crillemannen]

Ok that makes sense. I was just thinking, if you're getting constant heavy gain reduction, it should sound the same but quieter as constant less gain reduction. But that's not taking into account that analog gear probably sounds different at different levels.

Can you explain the ABCD multi-buss compression, btw? I've searched google and I see a lot of discussion about it, but no explanation of what it is (besides in German)

Here you go:

http://www.mbrauer.com/qna2.asp

allot of interesting reading

 

[Melodeath]

Thanks! It appears I'm basically already doing something similar, or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

He mentions using 5 busses. Four are processed, one is unprocessed. He uses 6 sends, one is stereo aux, and 5 mono sends. Each goes to a compressor. Can anyone explain why there's one stereo and 5 mono? Why wouldn't it just be four stereo since he has four processed busses? Also, is he mixing four compressed busses with one buss that's unprocessed that has everything on it? Or are all the compressed busses being sent to the unprocessed buss?

In my most recent album mix, I compress the vocal buss, drum buss, and bass. I didn't compress guitars , but then each buss is routed to the master where I do typical stereo buss compression. Kind of similar to ABCD it seems, except I'm compressing everything together, instead of mixing it all with an uncompressed main mix.

 

[crillemannen]

Thanks! It appears I'm basically already doing something similar, or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

He mentions using 5 busses. Four are processed, one is unprocessed. He uses 6 sends, one is stereo aux, and 5 mono sends. Each goes to a compressor. Can anyone explain why there's one stereo and 5 mono? Why wouldn't it just be four stereo since he has four processed busses? Also, is he mixing four compressed busses with one buss that's unprocessed that has everything on it? Or are all the compressed busses being sent to the unprocessed buss?

In my most recent album mix, I compress the vocal buss, drum buss, and bass. I didn't compress guitars , but then each buss is routed to the master where I do typical stereo buss compression. Kind of similar to ABCD it seems, except I'm compressing everything together, instead of mixing it all with an uncompressed main mix.

Well read it completely and think about it for a second, and it will make sense. Its allot of information to take in. But i think we all do ABCD compression of some sort, although Mr Brauer has refined it, and uses very specific eq's and compressors. But i remember reading it and i thought it was a very refreshing view of things.

But lets get back to the topic

 

[C_F_H_13]

Thanks! It appears I'm basically already doing something similar, or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

He mentions using 5 busses. Four are processed, one is unprocessed. He uses 6 sends, one is stereo aux, and 5 mono sends. Each goes to a compressor. Can anyone explain why there's one stereo and 5 mono? Why wouldn't it just be four stereo since he has four processed busses? Also, is he mixing four compressed busses with one buss that's unprocessed that has everything on it? Or are all the compressed busses being sent to the unprocessed buss?

In my most recent album mix, I compress the vocal buss, drum buss, and bass. I didn't compress guitars , but then each buss is routed to the master where I do typical stereo buss compression. Kind of similar to ABCD it seems, except I'm compressing everything together, instead of mixing it all with an uncompressed main mix.

1 stereo sends and 5 mono sends represent the available aux sends on an SSL 9000j. Explaining the ABCD method is beyond the scope of this thread, I could go into great detail but would rather stay on point with ermz original question.