gain staging 2 bus comp and other questions

[AudioGeekZine]

I'm at a point where I have too many options and in the interest of some sort of repeatable result I've got some stuff to figure out.

Pretend I know nothing about master bus compression while mixing. Consider this as a survey rather than a 'gimme presetz' post.

About what level do you hit your 2 bus comps?
How much Gain Reduction?
Is there a particular instrument you like to move the comp more than others?
How often do you use the sidechain and what is it keyed with?

 

[AudioGeekZine]

fuck just give me your presets then

 

[Trevoire520]

For me:
2-3 db gain reduction max.
Sometimes using a hpf in the sidechain.

 

[Melodeath]

I set it for 2-3 dB reduction max as well, sometimes 4dB during the loudest parts. I keep checking it throughout the mix to make sure it stays. I never use the sidechain of it, but I keep a long attack and quick release.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

It depends on the genre, but with all the rock stuff I've been hitting around 4-5dBs and on louder parts around 6-8dBs.

I get to a point when mixing with such heavy compression right from the get go where there isn't one element that is moving the needle more, everything is moving the needle, so the whole song is breathing along, obviously the kick which carries more low-end energy makes it react a bit more, but it's very subtle, I only mix this way now (unless it's fast extreme metal or something), it's literally instant glue, everything comes together more easily (once you get used to it) and it just breathes and you've got a song there!

But that depends on the compressors as well obviously, I've used 2 for this, drawmer 1969ME and PSP Old Timer, now I was REALLY surprised that the Old Timer handled it pretty damn well for a plugin!

 

[AudioGeekZine]

I've definitely found mixing to be easier through a compressor from start (or close to). It's completely different than adding one at the end. Of course if you take it off the mix falls apart sometimes.

I guess I usually go for about 2dB with the needle hovering around there. Usually fairly fast attack and auto release if available.
No makeup gain.

I think I should wait until I've got cool sounds for the tracks before adding it, then build the mix. Lately I seem to be constantly checking the comp and adjusting the threshold, trimming the tracks down because I'm not gain staging it right.

I've used Stillwell Rocket and Bombardier, Waves SSL, V and API, The Glue and UAD Fairchild. They all react differently, they'll all do the trick. Gonna have to shootout.

 

[C_F_H_13]

I use pretty much 2 different settings on 99% of what I do.

SSL BUSS (hardware or software)

Version 1:

AT: 30ms
RE: 100ms
Ratio: 4:!
makeup: none

Version 2:

AT: 10ms
RE: 100 or 300ms (depends on tempo and how busy the kick is)
RAtio: 4:1
makeup: none

30ms is the one I use the most, but sometimes i find it makes the snare pop too much so 10ms seems to smooth that out alot.

As far as reduction....I'd say 1-3, although the mix I'm working on right now I'm riding about -4 consistently and it sounds good...sooo who knows.

Also, I'd say the snare triggers "peak reduction", while the guitar/bass groups kind of drive the in between reduction.....

so I guess my guitars and bass are pushing it to about 1.5 of reduction and then the snare is popping in and out another 1-1.5 db....just a rough guess.

 

[Ermz]

The 'safest' setting for me on rock/metal/electro music has always been this:

Attack: 30ms
Release: Auto
Ratio: 4:1
GR: ~4dB

There are basically two variations to this depending on the material I'm mixing.

If it's super brutal and I need things to be ridiculously aggressive and pumpy:

Attack: 30ms
Release: 100ms
Ratio: 4:1
GR: 4dB

If it's more mellow:

Attack: 10 or 30ms (depends how your transient control is going in the mix)
Release: Auto
Ratio: 2:1
GR: ~2dB

This is all on a hardware SSL-style bus comp of course.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

I use pretty much 2 different settings on 99% of what I do.
.......

The 'safest' setting for me on rock/metal/electro music has always been this:

.......
This is all on a hardware SSL-style bus comp of course.

Awesome
<3<3<3
Love you guys.

 

[amarshism]

6-8db gr 10-30ms attack, auto release, 4:1

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Metal:
comp:C2
Attack:30
Release: i used to use .1 more, but recently Most of my stuff is on auto
GR: 4 db
Ratio: 4, sometimes 3 or 2:1

Rock stuff: 3 or 10 ms atk, .3 or auto release.
Sidechain is always in
I never change my threshold and gain settings on the comp, but I use the trim plugin in front of the c2 to determine the amount of GR by just feeding more or less signal into it.

 

[Ermz]

Release: i used to use .1 more, but recently Most of my stuff is on auto

Glad to hear that took off for you. Finding a bit more 'solidity' and 'glue' and maybe less pumping with auto?

What I find odd about the SSL comps is that the needle behavior totally changes in Auto mode. Honestly it doesn't seem to represent what's actually going on. The release behavior is so slow on it, that it can't possibly correlate with how quickly the actual compressor envelope handles transients.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Glad to hear that took off for you. Finding a bit more 'solidity' and 'glue' and maybe less pumping with auto?
.

yep, exactly that

What I find odd about the SSL comps is that the needle behavior totally changes in Auto mode. Honestly it doesn't seem to represent what's actually going on. The release behavior is so slow on it, that it can't possibly correlate with how quickly the actual compressor envelope handles transients.

I actually think that auto rel is indeed a rather slow release, it just doesn't sound that slow cause it fits to the rhythm of the music.
don't know how it's really working though

 

[ze kink]

I seem to have hovered towards what everyone else's using too:

Ratio: 4:1
Attack: 30ms
Release: Auto, occasionally 100ms (sometimes even automated to "visit" either setting on some part of the song)
Gain reduction: About 2dB on the louder parts

Recently I've been mixing without a bus comp again. I seem to have an on/off relationship with it.

 

[MetalSound]

I use pretty much 2 different settings on 99% of what I do.

SSL BUSS (hardware or software)

Version 1:

AT: 30ms
RE: 100ms
Ratio: 4:!
makeup: none

Version 2:

AT: 10ms
RE: 100 or 300ms (depends on tempo and how busy the kick is)
RAtio: 4:1
makeup: none

30ms is the one I use the most, but sometimes i find it makes the snare pop too much so 10ms seems to smooth that out alot.

As far as reduction....I'd say 1-3, although the mix I'm working on right now I'm riding about -4 consistently and it sounds good...sooo who knows.

Also, I'd say the snare triggers "peak reduction", while the guitar/bass groups kind of drive the in between reduction.....

so I guess my guitars and bass are pushing it to about 1.5 of reduction and then the snare is popping in and out another 1-1.5 db....just a rough guess.

same here although i don´t use hardware and about 4db gain reduction...oh and release is set to auto most of the time.

btw, why do you use no makeup gain?
i could understand it for the hardware but in the digital world it shouldn´t matter....

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Seems like everyone likes the slow attack, I've been using super fast attack like .2ms which can work if the sidechain filters out the kick.
Tried 30ms, Auto and 4:1 last night and it liked it.

Do you guys ever print a version without the compressor in case it doesn't work out in mastering? I'm going to create my template to print 3 versions of the mix at once, with Comp, without, with comp+brickwall.

 

[HeadCrusher]

I use 24 ms, 4:1, autorelease with anything from 3 to around 9 db of gain reduction on groups and master busses.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Seems like everyone likes the slow attack, I've been using super fast attack like .2ms which can work if the sidechain filters out the kick.
Tried 30ms, Auto and 4:1 last night and it liked it.

Do you guys ever print a version without the compressor in case it doesn't work out in mastering? I'm going to create my template to print 3 versions of the mix at once, with Comp, without, with comp+brickwall.

Fuck that, if it was your decision on mixing with a compressor it's exactly the same decision you took of compressing your drum buss or your snare for example. If you take it out it's going to ruin the whole balance and pretty much the way your mix was envisioned. I see it as a decision as anything else done within the mix, it only happens to be affecting the entire mix instead of single elements.

Unless something went wrong and it actually sounds better without then that's a different story.

 

[JeffTD]

Fuck that, if it was your decision on mixing with a compressor it's exactly the same decision you took of compressing your drum buss or your snare for example. If you take it out it's going to ruin the whole balance and pretty much the way your mix was envisioned. I see it as a decision as anything else done within the mix, it only happens to be affecting the entire mix instead of single elements.

Unless something went wrong and it actually sounds better without then that's a different story.

+1 - If I took the 2bus comp off of my mix after the fact it would fall apart.

 

[C_F_H_13]

What I find odd about the SSL comps is that the needle behavior totally changes in Auto mode. Honestly it doesn't seem to represent what's actually going on. The release behavior is so slow on it, that it can't possibly correlate with how quickly the actual compressor envelope handles transients.

Yeah that's why I've never liked using auto in the hardware world, cause the meter becomes totally useless and it freaks clients out hahaha. Mine in particular just jumps from no reduction to 4db with no seaming pattern or reason. It doesn't SOUND like that, but mentally it just fucks with my mind.