Need some help : recording with Marshall 1960 (G12T75)

[Sly]

Hey guys,

since a few years I've been using the Mesa OS cab for my recordings (coupled with 5150s, Engls, Boogies etc.) and it always worked very well, but now I need to reamp rythm guitars for a modern thrash metal album, and I definitely want to try the classic Marshall 1960A cab with G12T speakers. I want to hear the bass growling under the guitars and G12T sound like they produce less low mids but more agressive high mids.
I will use the classic "one 57 in front of the dustcap" technique.
Amp should be 5150 or Engl Savage 120.

I have a few questions :

- When using V30 speakers, I have the amp set loud but not too much. Do you find that you need to have the amp louder when using G12T75s (I think they have less low mids and muddier bass ?) ?

- I will use a 4x12" Marshall cab, I heard those speakers can be phasey, do you try each speaker to find the best sounding one ?

- Do you aim the 57 as you would do with V30 speakers ?

- Since frequency response is totally different, do you EQ more to have the guitars to fit your mix ? What about LP and HP ?

Thanks for your opinions, if you have some tips for this I will be happy to read them

 

[greyskull]

God those cabs are a nightmare to get sounding good.
Just keep moving the mic til you get it right!

 

[Sly]

Yes that's it, I think the first part of the problem is to find out the less phasey speaker :s

Anyone ?

 

[Machinated]

I think more volume on the amp gets the overall mids up which helps. the speakers sound phasey, the least phasey position is usually bang on center and then its just a case of EQ'ing off the excess top end.

can be a bit fiddly and the SLIGHTEST mic movement makes a huge difference with these speakers. but there is good tone to be had, just can take several hours of mic placement to get it.

 

[AllanD]

I was also thinking about this. Any good album examples of well recorded T75's?

 

[Sly]

Thanks, I'm thinking about those albums produced by Daniel Bergstrand, totally dig the special guitar tones he gets through this cab :

In Flames - Reroute To Remain
The Duskfall - The Dying Wonders Of The World, Lifetime Supply Of Guilt
Raised Fist - Dedication, Sound Of The Republic, Veil Of Ignorance
Meshuggah - Chaosphere, Destroy Erase Improve
...

NB : the bass has a lot to do in his productions.

I think Sneap also recorded/mixed some albums which use G12Ts.

 

[Trevoire520]

- When using V30 speakers, I have the amp set loud but not too much. Do you find that you need to have the amp louder when using G12T75s (I think they have less low mids and muddier bass ?) ?

You should be fine running about the same volume you do with your Mesa. Make sure the speakers aren't woofing out in the low end and you should be fine.

- I will use a 4x12" Marshall cab, I heard those speakers can be phasey, do you try each speaker to find the best sounding one ?

Yep, just the same as you would with any other cab. Try each speaker and decide which you like the best.

- Do you aim the 57 as you would do with V30 speakers ?

Probably best to start in the same position as normal and then adjust from there.

- Since frequency response is totally different, do you EQ more to have the guitars to fit your mix ? What about LP and HP ?

You might need to be a bit more aggressive with getting the fizz out, but you should still spend time to get it sounding as close as possible with mic positioning.

 

[guitarguru777]

I find personally that a 609 works great on the 75's. If you are using a 57 use 2 mics on 2 different speakers and combine them. one to pic up your top end, and something dark like a D6 or Beta 52 to get your low end meat. I find if you try to find the "perfect" sound just using one mic on that speaker it takes forever and a day. I like the D6 / 609 combination on mine. But my cabs built different then a 1960. Its much older.

 

[NSGUITAR]

I recently used this cab+Orange rocker 30 head for a band. All I used was an sm57 on the edge of the dust cap and a 421 off axis. It ended up turning out pretty good.

 

[Deofig]

Here's something done with a marshall major head through a 1960 cab with the G12t75's:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2166066/good%20ol%27%20marshall.mp3

While not thrash, it shows you can get decent tone. Also, keep in mind this was recorded as a pre-production demo.

 

[acappa]

Machine Head is still using their Marshalls 1960 BV studio&live....at least they were used in Burn my eyes&The more things change

 

[Trevoire520]

I find personally that a 609 works great on the 75's.

Good point, I always found 57's to be a bit top fizzy on T75's, whereas my E906 with the presence boost on sounded great (the boost makes it sound very similar to the 609)

Machine Head is still using their Marshalls 1960 BV studio&live....at least they were used in Burn my eyes&The more things change

BV is the Marshall with the V30's in it...

 

[Sly]

Thanks those are good tips, I remember a thread with Lasse posting some G12T75 miced stuff... I can't find it.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

I was also thinking about this. Any good album examples of well recorded T75's?

Nevermore- DHIADW
Everything recorded by Daniel Bergstrand

- When using V30 speakers, I have the amp set loud but not too much. Do you find that you need to have the amp louder when using G12T75s (I think they have less low mids and muddier bass ?) ?

Same as v30

- I will use a 4x12" Marshall cab, I heard those speakers can be phasey, do you try each speaker to find the best sounding one ?

Same as any cab imo. V30 cab isn't like gold so you also have to find your speaker of choice by comparing each speaker to other for find the best for what you want/need.

- Do you aim the 57 as you would do with V30 speakers ?

In general, yes and no
I start to put mic where I know sweetpot is. But generally v30 sweetpot is where dustcap meet cone (2cm from center "à la louche"). Same placement for for g12t75 but since t75 have a huge dustcap, you have your mic more close to dead center than where dustcap meet cone.

But for me t75 real sweetpot are betwen dead center and position 1a.

- Since frequency response is totally different, do you EQ more to have the guitars to fit your mix ? What about LP and HP ?

T75 naturaly cut through in your mix. And need less eqing than v30 imvho.
But I think this probably because I'm really used with this speaker. So when you know what you want to hear, and also know how get what you want to hear; everything is more simple...

Good luck

 

[Sly]

Thanks for this !! Reamping tomorrow, will post some results here