Neumann KM 86 substitute?

[Glenn Fricker]

Hey guys,

If there's one request I keep getting, it's for the "Black Album" snare sound. Well, I know for a fact that you'd really need Lars Ulrich in order to get that particular sound, but I'm willing to try and ballpark it anyway.

Which leads me on the hunt for the Neumann KM 86 mic. Of which, I'm not having much luck finding. Anyone have any substitute suggestions?

-0z-

 

[PhilR]

Actually, to get that "Black Album" sound, you'd need about 80+ room mics, 1-2 condensors per cymbal and more cut & pasting of alternate drum takes than the avarage fragile mind could stand. Lars himself was pretty superflous to the whole process.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Actually not helpful but I think another part of that sound is how slow all of his beats were on that CD. The snare always has lots of room to breath. I think that allowed it to be mixed in a pretty cool way.


Anyway, I'd like to know of a similar mic too. even though most bands ask for snare sounds from Sneap mixed cds from me (if they specify). (by the way I don't mean to imply any similerity between me and Mr. Sneap by saying this, obviously I can't deliver snare's anywhere near his. )

 

[Matt Crooks]

Is the KM 186 not a modern replacement for the KM 86?

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Actually not helpful but I think another part of that sound is how slow all of his beats were on that CD. The snare always has lots of room to breath. I think that allowed it to be mixed in a pretty cool way.

Yes, yes, si, ci, nei, yaaaah, agreed.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

For purely testing purposes, I tried miking the snare with one of my trusty Oktava MC012's. Well, what do you know? The thing fucking rocks on snares.

I figured, "hey, if the Neumann is a SD condensor, why not try what I have?"

Then I got ambitious & paired it with a 57, & set up both so they'll be in phase. End result: Wow. I think I know what I'll be using on my next project!

-0z-

 

[NickL]

For purely testing purposes, I tried miking the snare with one of my trusty Oktava MC012's. Well, what do you know? The thing fucking rocks on snares.

I figured, "hey, if the Neumann is a SD condensor, why not try what I have?"

Then I got ambitious & paired it with a 57, & set up both so they'll be in phase. End result: Wow. I think I know what I'll be using on my next project!

-0z-

yes! the 57 on top with a small diaphragm condenser on bottom is the sheeeeeeeeeeet

 

[Glenn Fricker]

yes! the 57 on top with a small diaphragm condenser on bottom is the sheeeeeeeeeeet

Actually, they were both on the top skin. Makes for a very interesting blend. The 57 has the mids while the SD condensor has the lows & hi's. Very cool indeed.

 

[slinky_]

Actually, they were both on the top skin. Makes for a very interesting blend. The 57 has the mids while the SD condensor has the lows & hi's. Very cool indeed.

Got any test clips to upload?

 

[greyskull]

ive used the neuman kms 105, a lot
the live condesor on snare, which is pretty cool...
nice top end, but pretty scooped, it is also prone to picking up a lot of hats if your not careful/beating your drummier into playing them softer

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Did a few more tests with this method, swapping out the Oktava for a Studio projects C1 LD condensor.

Results: Stunning. Great hi's, great lows, but without the massive proximity effect of the Oktava. Placement is an absolute cunt. It's a big mic with an even bigger shockmount. However, this does come in handy as you can move the mic body so you have an actual physical barrier between the capsule & the snare.
It's a little scooped, but paired up with a 57, which will fill in the mids, it's downright amazing.

I'll post some clips when I get a real dummer in. I suck beyond belief on the drums.

-0z-

 

[NickL]

Actually, they were both on the top skin. Makes for a very interesting blend. The 57 has the mids while the SD condensor has the lows & hi's. Very cool indeed.

Wow thats interesteing I actually don't think I've ever seen that done before. Post pics?

 

[TheDude]

I use this one for the snare. Yes, some bleeding hihats, but I don't care

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/4359efa46266c7e9/index.html

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Wow thats interesteing I actually don't think I've ever seen that done before. Post pics?

Here's a couple of shots with a 57 and the big condensor. Just make sure you line the capsules up or it will be out of phase.