New album Foregone out February 2023

[eochaid]

It doesn't sound like IF previous to SOAPF. Is that alright?

Not only that. At least, SC and SOAPF are efforts of a band trying to sound different from themselves and other bands. Since then, they are trying to sound like other younger bands. All of them have lost, at this point, their personalities. If they ever had one. And by all I mean Bjorn and Anders. They're the only ones that matter

So far, out of five singles, we have Bjorn recycling ATG. Bjorn recycling F(r)iend and Bjorn recycling a song that he just made. And I bet that, if we dig a bit, we'll find that the other two songs have also been recycled from other artists. It's not very promising.

And I don't care about they sounding melodeath because this is not IF melodeath. IF used to put first melodies and then aggression. Not it's pretended aggression and then pretended melody to join the different parts of songs that lack internal coherence.

 

[The Grayfox]

Impeccable logic, as usual.

We can go ahead and agree to disagree here. Moving on...

 

[Jester Slave]

Impeccable logic, as usual.

We can go ahead and agree to disagree here. Moving on...

Ah, can't explain your bullshit once again, as usual eh? It's marvelous that these days it's acceptable to call being factually wrong and cleueless "just an opinion, bro". You sat down, listened to these songs, read the comments, you saw people agreeing that they indeed have some R2R and CC vibe to them, MYM straight up evokes F(r)iend, then you wrote a comment stating that it doesn't sound IF. And you have the audacity to mention logic.

I really picked the wrong genre to be more invested in, because comments like yours will send me to a mental asylum, where I'll have to be put in a straight jacket while I am screaming from the top of my lungs that "THIS MOTHERFUCKER LISTENED TO THE MOST CC SONGS SINCE CC AND SAID IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IF. LET ME FUCKING GO, YOU GOT THE WRONG GUY, YOU IDIOTS!!"

Then again, sometimes I forget we are just like a dozen people here, and half of us doesn't even enjoy IF anymore, so jokes on me for expecting solid takes. Is there any way I could start smoking now? I know I'm late, but lung cancer sounds preferable by the minute.

 

[Jester Slave]

It doesn't sound like IF previous to SOAPF. Is that alright?

Not only that. At least, SC and SOAPF are efforts of a band trying to sound different from themselves and other bands. Since then, they are trying to sound like other younger bands. All of them have lost, at this point, their personalities. If they ever had one. And by all I mean Bjorn and Anders. They're the only ones that matter

So far, out of five singles, we have Bjorn recycling ATG. Bjorn recycling F(r)iend and Bjorn recycling a song that he just made. And I bet that, if we dig a bit, we'll find that the other two songs have also been recycled from other artists. It's not very promising.

And I don't care about they sounding melodeath because this is not IF melodeath. IF used to put first melodies and then aggression. Not it's pretended aggression and then pretended melody to join the different parts of songs that lack internal coherence.

It's... not all right? It sounds mostly like CC if I'd have to pick a record, even if there are other influences as well. Mind you, CC was a weird spot in many ways on their discography to begin with, because I don't think they ever did a record before or after that with such a bite. Will the whole record be like that? Maybe not.

Saying Björn recycled F(r)iend is a bit harsh. When they copy a solo or main riff/melody, it's very lame, but doing a similar intro/outro is not that bad. And creativity is a different discussion altogether. It's obvious that they are reaching back to some of their older sounds, period. Whether they do it well or not is a different question. As much as I really like the idea of Foregone pt. 1, an IF song I don't think many of us ever expected to hear by now, I still think CC is superior, because I like its sound better, and it is the record with the very best of Anders' capabilities.

 

[eochaid]

Ah, can't explain your bullshit once again, as usual eh? It's marvelous that these days it's acceptable to call being factually wrong and cleueless "just an opinion, bro". You sat down, listened to these song, read the comments, you saw people agreeing that they indeed have some R2R and CC vibe to them, MYM straight up evokes F(r)iend, then you wrote a comment stating that it doesn't sound IF.

Dude. Some people claim that it has vibes. Some claim that they don't. I'm among those who say that they don't. Then, copying a riff doesn't make the song instantly sound like old IF because there's more to it than just a riff. There's a way of putting riffs, music, together and the flow of the songs. For me, the new songs are a heavier version of ITM. This is a band that has listened to old IF but don't understand what it was about.

Then, when listening to music and finding influences in that music, it's about personal opinions because people hears different things. I mean, the music evokes different things in their minds. And that's subjective.

But the fact that they sound like old IF. That's delusional thinking.

 

[eochaid]

It's... not all right? It sounds mostly like CC if I'd have to pick a record,

Lol.

 

[The Grayfox]

Ah, can't explain your bullshit once again, as usual blah blah blah I'm a fucking moron...

I explained where I was coming from perfectly fine the first time. There's nothing left to explain. You're still not getting it, and instead turning into a raving lunatic because I've insulted your fanboy integrity. Next time I'll make sure I add the words "TO ME" at the end of the sentence "IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IF." Maybe that will get the dildo out of your ass so you can have a nice day. Now move along before you have a fucking stroke.

Just so we're clear... the new songs don't like In Flames TO ME. I don't care if it bothers you.

 

[Jester Slave]

But the fact that they sound like old IF. That's delusional thinking.

I said they sound like IF, that is the factual point. It was you who said you were talking about those opinions which say they went back to their very roots.

Lol.

How do you listen to this and don't recognize the similarities with CC? Yes, the instruments are tuned more akin to ITM, but listen to the pace. It has the hallmark pace and (non.pejorative) trashy sound of CC, where the verses are accompanied by dominating riffs. Listen to the verses of Pacing Death's Trail or Versus Terminus, then listen to the verses of Foregone pt1. Tell me you don't see the patterns...

I do see the transition beginning on ITM though.

 

[Jester Slave]

I explained where I was coming from perfectly fine the first time. There's nothing left to explain. You're still not getting it, and instead turning into a raving lunatic because I've insulted your fanboy integrity. Next time I'll make sure I add the words "TO ME" at the end of the sentence "IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IF." Maybe that will get the dildo out of your ass so you can have a nice day. Now move along before you have a fucking stroke.

Just so we're clear... the new songs don't like In Flames TO ME. I don't care if it bothers you.

What is In Flames to you and what records do you think are prime examples (or have songs as prime examples) of that?

 

[eochaid]

I said they sound like IF, that is the factual point. It was you who said you were talking about those opinions which say they went back to their very roots.



How do you listen to this and don't recognize the similarities with CC? Yes, the instruments are tuned more akin to ITM, but listen to the pace. It has the hallmark pace and (non.pejorative) trashy sound of CC, where the verses are accompanied by dominating riffs. Listen to the verses of Pacing Death's Trail or Versus Terminus, then listen to the verses of Foregone pt1. Tell me you don't see the patterns...

I do see the transition beginning on ITM though.

It lacks the flow, the transition, the pacing and melody. It's just mimicking something without really understanding it. And the melodies are far "darker".

To me, all of this sounds more similar to Pendulum than old IF.

CC was a mix of their latest releases with their old stuff. This, even if people claims to be like that, it's nothing like that. Not at all.

 

[DE4life]

Feels like I need to clarify some things here as opinions are being ascribed to me that are inaccurate

Firstly I never said SC and Battles sound like In Flames to me. I'm on record as saying they don't, many times. I should also make clear that when I talk about "sounding like In Flames" I am only talking about the post-Jesper period, as to me the band became a completely different beast at that point. There are parts of post-2008 stuff that sound like older In Flames, but this is mostly just Bjorn copying or closely mimicking something he or Jesper wrote for those records, so it doesn't really count. From my perspective (and this is just my opinion and interpretation of the music, so it's no more or less valid than anybody else's view) the only two albums I would say sound like an In Flames record (post-2008) are SOAPF and ITM. Why?

Well, we know SOAPF was Bjorn's baby instrumentally. He worked very hard on this and it shows. Anders meanwhile contributes plenty in terms of vocal melodies and how he sounds on that album in general. This was a very solid collaboration between these two and as they are the fulcrum of the post-Jesper era it makes a big difference. Siren Charms is an Anders side project. Sorry, but it is. He was clearly putting a lot of effort into his side of things, but Bjorn is just there. He barely contributes and is little more than a guest musician/hired hand who doesn't even do a good job of matching the instrumental to Anders vocals. Same for Peter and Daniel. Battles was a takeover of the band by Howard Benson and his cronies. Anders are Bjorn are like zombies essentially just being told what to do. They've admitted as much in interviews since. I, the Mask has the guitars back in a more prominent role and with a lot more energy and drive. Still far from great but the effort is there. Similarly Anders has a lot of moments where he contributes well on vocal melodies and growling performance. Stay With Me as one obvious example on where Anders shines (on the CD). Yes there is still the issue with Benson's production, but it feels like he's more in the back seat on ITM as opposed to leading the way.

Now we come to Foregone. Nothing on here sounds like post-Jesper IF to me. The closest you can find is some parts that sound a bit like STYE, CC or ASOP. We're going back 14 years though, so in terms of the current iteration of the band this doesn't really sound like anything they've been doing recently (nor especially in the distant past, in my view, but TGD does remind me of CC at points, and MYM certainly has a F(r)iend influence).

Finally, I want to quickly make a note on production. You can't just hand wave this away when talking about what the music sounds like in relation to past albums. If the production was different it would sound like it came from this album. Well yeah, maybe, but it doesn't. My brain isn't advanced enough to filter the current production and replace it with different production values in real-time whilst listening to the songs. Considering production and mixing is a pretty huge part of how music sounds and is conveyed, you can't just tell people to ignore that when they say it doesn't really sound like the In Flames they remember.

 

[Jester Slave]

Are we really in a timeline where we can criticize an IF material which resembles the R2R-ASOP era more than the post-SOAPF era with "doesn't sound IF"? Sure, say that it doesn't sound like their previous records, but there are so many interpretations of what "being like IF" is, not to mention the overarching meaning of it, which includes TJR, R2R and SC as well into what IF Is, so that it is just a very confusing expression at this point.

Not to mention if SOAPF can be labeled as "sounds IF" then anything can. You argue that it is IF, because Björn and Anders put a lot of effort into it. Sure, it is a well-polished, well-constructed record. But is it anything like IF? I'd say the jump from Clayman to R2R is less noticable, than whatever happened in SOAPF. That record is a straight up alternative rock record. Especially if you can't look past the production, because the guitarwork sounds shockingly not-IF.

 

[DE4life]

I think you need to read my post again, I'm not explaining twice.

 

[eochaid]

Are we really in a timeline where we can criticize an IF material which resembles the R2R-ASOP era more than the post-SOAPF era with "doesn't sound IF"?

We will critizice it, or not, when that happens.

 

[DE4life]

Also the idea that SOAPF is "alternative rock" suggests a misunderstanding of genre. It's alternative metal, as most IF records have been since Clayman. Certainly from STYE onwards. It's an extremely generic label, though, so I wouldn't put too much stock in using it to define a sound.

Jesper was a key ingredient of the 1994-2008 IF creative mix to me, so I see no issue in differentiating between the band pre and post Jesper. Bjorn/Anders as a creative force have pushed the band towards what I would consider a far more melodic and somewhat less aggressive overall sound, with a handful of exceptions. Foregone meanwhile, based on what we've heard so far, has increased the aggression beyond what we typically heard in SOAPF, SC, Battles or ITM. I don't want to compare pre-SOAPF because we are talking about a different band (only 2/5 members remaining from that period) with a different creative mindset.

 

[Jester Slave]

You are making things needlessly convoluted. And easy to criticize, because you know it as well, that if you heard a CC track for the first time right after a TJR track, your first thought wouldn't be "oh yeah, this is that Jesper mix!", so basically you are making up arbitrary constructs to compare these new songs to.

But more important than that, I don't understand how you don't see that SOAPF (and SC) the SOAPF sound is vastly different, and it was mostly ITM which showed a return to form, even though their sound is forever - for me - infected with that SOAPF sound a little. They lost all of their pace and bite on that record. There are a bunch of good or even great songs there, but something is missing. ITM brought some of that back, and Foregone continues to do so, even if not to my exact liking.

But this whole argument is ridiculous, because IF had at the very least (LS/Sub excluded) 4 or 5 big shifts in their sound, so it is like doing fantasy booking in WWE. I'm not saying it's not fun, but there isn't much point to it, because you simply can't compare eras and you absolutely can't just say "that Jesper mix from 1994-2008".

 

[eochaid]

If you skip STYE there's a continuum in their discography till ASOP. It's not like everything is melodeath but there's an evident evolution based upon certain pillars. The main change between those albums is Anders way of singing and how he approaches vocal melodies.

But, STYE is an exception where they decided to go minimalistic with the music. The main difference, musically, between R2R and Clayman is the lack of lead guitars during the verses or choruses. But everything else is just there.

So, if anyone listens to their full discography from LS to ASOP, skipping STYE, will listen to a band that is constantly evolving but from some foundation . But it's still recognizable.

Anything that comes after that, we know it's IF because it's labelled like that. But, using the last songs as example, if, instead of IF, they were named The Halo Effect, no one would be saying how this is them going back to their old sound. To their roots? As long as we considerate their roots to be melodeath, then yes, to some point. But there are too many ways to make melodeath and, what they're doing now, has nothing to do with the Jesper's era.

In fact, Conditional has more in common with how IF used to approach music than anything they've done since Jesper's left. And that's a song that could certainly be in any of their albums since Whoracle till CC.

 

[DE4life]

I can say that, and I do. I don't really see what's convoluted about my position. A major creative contributor and founding member of the band is no longer present from 2008, ergo I judge the post-2008 output differently. I'd say that's perfectly logical. It's more in the realms of fantasy to compare the current output to the pre-SOAPF period. I'd say that's especially relevant when looking at Foregone as Tanner and Broderick in particular are bringing elements to the sound that simply weren't there before. So how exactly do you create a meaningful comparison beyond saying certain sections of songs may fit in well on past albums? There are parts of Arch Enemy and DT songs that might fit in well on older IF albums too. It doesn't really mean anything.

 

[eochaid]

Since he left, the harmonies are missing. Not only during verses or choruses but also during the solos or interludes. And that's just an example. Of course, his way of composition is different from Bjorn's. So, that must also have an impact in the band. An impact that, maybe, would have been lesser if they had allowed Niklas to be a part of the main force.

 

[DE4life]

We know Slave likes to minimise Jesper's importance whenever possible so I'm not surprised that he considers Jesper's departure a non-factor.