New album Foregone out February 2023

[Jester Slave]

Why wouldn't we compare their recent output to an era where they were at their most "aggressive"? Just because they did not necessarily write those songs with the intention to be like on those records, if they turned out to be compareable, then why not compare them? I am a sucker for the r2r-stye-cc trio, so I have no delusions about these new songs being on that level, but I do know what part of IF I have been missing for the last few records, which finally made an appearance here.

And for better or worse, they did other throwbacks here and there, like Foregone pt 2. Was it well-executed? No, but it is most definitely a callback to pre-R2R IF for example. TGD is an example of a well-executed song imo. I am convinced that if the second part of this record will be at least as of this quality, this record will be remembered fondly. Maybe it'll be badly received, but I don't think you, or even I appreciate them finally doing something different like this. If they fucking fixed the choruses, this could've been their best record since CC. It's no wonder the best songs so far are Forgeone 1 and TGD...

We know Slave likes to minimise Jesper's importance whenever possible so I'm not surprised that he considers Jesper's departure a non-factor.

I hope that this is just a bait, because none of those statements are true.

 

[eochaid]

Why wouldn't we compare their recent output to an era where they were at their most "aggressive"?

Because, musically, they have little in common. I can agree with people saying that they're going back to be aggressive but I cannot agree with people saying that this sounds like old IF. Just because it's aggressive doesn't mean that it's the same. This band, the current songs, have some things in common with old IF in the same way that, as @DE4life said, other bands have things in common with that old sound.

These songs, don't fit into any of those albums no matter how much people keeps on repeating the same mantra once and once again.

 

[DE4life]

Tbf there were people saying songs from SC and Battles would fit into older albums... this tends to be the way with new releases. The idea that any of these songs would slot into any older album is strange to me, simply because Broderick's guitar work and Tanner's drumming is completely different to how Jesper and Daniel performed (or if you want to go back to Whoracle, how Glenn and Bjorn performed). Even if you take production out of the equation, that's not really debateable. Bass I'll leave out as it isn't a huge factor on any IF record.

I'd agree that there's mostly a defined path in terms of IF albums up until ASOP. I'm not sure I'd call it evolution, but the changes make sense. Leaving out LS as it's just a demo, TJR was very folk-inspired MDM. Whoracle took away some of the folk elements and began to incorporate a straighter heavy metal sound. Colony completely removed the folk elements and just went straight into heavy metal/MDM. This is the period where people were defining In Flames as Iron Maiden fused with Death Metal. Clayman basically follows the same blueprint as Colony, just with cleaner production. Reroute simplifies the Colony/Clayman sound into something closer to the metal mainstream at the time, with STYE an attempt to fully submerge into the growing metalcore/nu metal scene. After the negative reaction to STYE (and by Anders' account his own disappointment with lack of decent guitarwork on the album) Come Clarity keeps the metalcore elements but brings the guitars back to the front. Not entirely sure what they were going for with ASOP, if I'm being honest, but I think it was an attempt to soften the CC sound but keep the guitar melodies.

Why wouldn't we compare their recent output to an era where they were at their most "aggressive"? Just because they did not necessarily write those songs with the intention to be like on those records, if they turned out to be compareable, then why not compare them? I am a sucker for the r2r-stye-cc trio, so I have no delusions about these new songs being on that level, but I do know what part of IF I have been missing for the last few records, which finally made an appearance here.

And for better or worse, they did other throwbacks here and there, like Foregone pt 2. Was it well-executed? No, but it is most definitely a callback to pre-R2R IF for example. TGD is an example of a well-executed song imo. I am convinced that if the second part of this record will be at least as of this quality, this record will be remembered fondly. Maybe it'll be badly received, but I don't think you, or even I appreciate them finally doing something different like this. If they fucking fixed the choruses, this could've been their best record since CC. It's no wonder the best songs so far are Forgeone 1 and TGD...

Bruh, you can view the songs however you want. As I said in my original post, it's just how I perceive and judge what I'm hearing. I'm not saying anyone has to follow my criteria, but as you were extremely critical of my view I responded accordingly.

 

[ciko_gfb]

It lacks the flow, the transition, the pacing and melody. It's just mimicking something without really understanding it. And the melodies are far "darker".

To me, all of this sounds more similar to Pendulum than old IF.

CC was a mix of their latest releases with their old stuff. This, even if people claims to be like that, it's nothing like that. Not at all.

I had some suspicion about you're being deaf but I think I'm sure about it now. Pendulum? Really? Did you even listened Pendulum at all or are you trying to justify yourself with some bullshit.

I can understand that you don't like new songs or whatever, thats your taste I cant say anything. But saying that they dont sound like IF its completely bullshit.

The Great Deciever is mix of everything they have done and could've been on CC and no one would notice. It has melodies, harmonies, harsh vocals, breakdown, melodic solo, even an acoustic break (which sounds like completely from Whoracle). You can say you dont like it and I understand but saying that it doesnt sound like IF is the equivalent of I'm deaf.

 

[SunOfMyth]

This forum is really interesting to witness. I've checked it during times of album releases for years but never made an account. Some of the users here are hellbent on diminishing anything the band could do and it's hard to understand why they spend so much time trying to convince others. The new album so far sounds a lot like mid era in flames, it's pretty remarkable the ways in which people try to shut that down.

I need to hear it explained in terms of music theory how their transitions are different than they were 17 years ago in an actual musical explanation, not a nostalgia based one. We've all grown a lot since the mid 2000s, maybe your tastes have changed? I was very down on In Flames from Siren Charms on especially, but some people literally come here to listen to a song once and bless the forum with their opinions that don't really align with reality anymore. I sometimes think people envision mdm with metalcore influences as this vast genre they have figured out that no one else can quite like them and it's so off putting for conversation. If you have hated the band this long, why keep talking about it constantly? Do you really think songs in this genre aren't going to echo ones from their past, band wise?

Its just confusing to read over and over from some of the same people here at album releases, especially one like this in which the band actually sounds good and inspired again.

I'd love to hear a music theory based explanation about the songs on this new album versus the songs on come clarity, as a 20+ year fan of the band I'd like to learn something or be able to condemn it entirely.

 

[TheJestersDoor]

This forum is really interesting to witness. I've checked it during times of album releases for years but never made an account. Some of the users here are hellbent on diminishing anything the band could do and it's hard to understand why they spend so much time trying to convince others. The new album so far sounds a lot like mid era in flames, it's pretty remarkable the ways in which people try to shut that down.

I need to hear it explained in terms of music theory how their transitions are different than they were 17 years ago in an actual musical explanation, not a nostalgia based one. We've all grown a lot since the mid 2000s, maybe your tastes have changed? I was very down on In Flames from Siren Charms on especially, but some people literally come here to listen to a song once and bless the forum with their opinions that don't really align with reality anymore. I sometimes think people envision mdm with metalcore influences as this vast genre they have figured out that no one else can quite like them and it's so off putting for conversation. If you have hated the band this long, why keep talking about it constantly? Do you really think songs in this genre aren't going to echo ones from their past, band wise?

Its just confusing to read over and over from some of the same people here at album releases, especially one like this in which the band actually sounds good and inspired again.

I'd love to hear a music theory based explanation about the songs on this new album versus the songs on come clarity, as a 20+ year fan of the band I'd like to learn something or be able to condemn it entirely.

This was me back when battles came out, joined the chaos. Welcome!

 

[eochaid]

I had some suspicion about you're being deaf but I think I'm sure about it now. Pendulum? Really? Did you even listened Pendulum at all or are you trying to justify yourself with some bullshit.

I'm specifically talking about their Collab with IF.

Of course, I was to stupid to think that people would get the context without me having to specify it. But I guess that was asking to much.

 

[DE4life]

If you just want to circlejerk about how amazing the band are the In Flames sub
reddit is probably a better option than here tbf.

 

[The Grayfox]

I had some suspicion about you're being deaf but I think I'm sure about it now. Pendulum? Really? Did you even listened Pendulum at all or are you trying to justify yourself with some bullshit.

I can understand that you don't like new songs or whatever, thats your taste I cant say anything. But saying that they dont sound like IF its completely bullshit.

The Great Deciever is mix of everything they have done and could've been on CC and no one would notice. It has melodies, harmonies, harsh vocals, breakdown, melodic solo, even an acoustic break (which sounds like completely from Whoracle). You can say you dont like it and I understand but saying that it doesnt sound like IF is the equivalent of I'm deaf.

Fuck's sake, I'm just going to start saying "it doesn't sound like the IF that I like." Because it certainly doesn't sound like TJR or Whoracle. Sorry, it doesn't sound like TJR or Whoracle TO ME. I don't want to be "factually wrong" here.

 

[The Grayfox]

If you just want to circlejerk about how amazing the band are the In Flames sub
reddit is probably a better option than here tbf.

This is kind of the problem and it has been in the In Flames community for a very long time. If you only like one album and it's, let's say Lunar Strain, you're still welcome to express your views even if you don't like the rest of their albums. The view or opinion isn't any less valid. Pointing out that someone's opinion is "old" is confusing to me. Like that automatically disqualifies it or something. This was a problem on the original UM In Flames forum, it was a problem at Everdying, it was a problem at JesterHead... people just want you to mindlessly love everything this band does and if you don't, well you sir are wrong and "what the fuck are you doing on an In Flames forum?!"

 

[eochaid]

As if we need music theory to explain the difference. If someone, when listening to this, and then listening to their old albums, cannot tell the difference, then there's no meaning in trying ti explain it.

If someone doesn't understand how the approach when constructing the music, when adding melodies, when joining the parts together, the mood of the songs, Anders approach to his vocal melodies, is different from how it used to be, then what's the purpose on explaining that from a theoretical point of view?



It's like trying to explain people that, though we might not like their latest releases, we still have an attachment to the band because their "good" years are still part of us.

Specially to people that are just reading the forum waiting for a leak.

So, what are we doing here? We're keeping this fucking forum alive so that we can talk about things that we like and things that we dislike and you can have your download link when the time comes.

 

[CladInShadows971]

To just chime in - I think the difference here is what different people consider the defining features of "Old In Flames".

To me it had nothing to do with heaviness, and so the new songs being heavier doesn't therefore make them sound anything like the early albums. To me, the defining features of the early albums were the guitar melodies, and to a lesser extent the melancholic/misanthropic lyrics. And so far, across five songs we've got one half-assed guitar melody (The Great Deceiver), and while Anders may be aiming for those same lyrical topics it sounds like a 15-year olds attempt at writing them.

Frankly I don't think we'll ever get traditional In Flames melodies again without Jesper in the band, but that's fine because I have Days of the Lost.

If you think some deeper growls and faster guitar work is all that's needed to revive the old In Flames sound then I have some good news for you - there are thousands of other bands out there who to you must also sound just like old In Flames!

 

[eochaid]

I've been reading that IF are back to their old self since battles. So there's nothing new here.

 

[Jester Slave]

So, how long do we have to wait for some of you to understand that the R2R-ASOP era is also old IF by now? It's like a fucking Babylonian confusion here, where people argue about whether IF sounds like IF, but sounding like IF has like 5 meanings by now, so everyone is arguing for something different.

And yes, if you want nostalgia bait, go with Days of the Lost. If you want fanboys loving everything the band produces, go to reddit. If you want grumpy people hating on IF, then stay here. But know this: all of these people I just mentioned are just a minority fraction of the people who actually listen to or care about In Flames. When you see the people at the live shows, when you see view counts on youtube, when you see the listening numbers on Spotify, 98% of those people are not from here or reddit. These are just tiny echo-chambers where we jerk around, but we are completely meaningless.

I personally have my two cousins as test subjects. I got them into IF in the early 2000s when we were kids, but we don't really talk about the band anymore. A couple years ago one of them asked me if I knew about SC, and how he just only found it, but it's pretty good. He didn't give a rant about omfg this is an Anders project, and wtf is with the drums, and what are these lyrics omg. He is casual as fuck just like most people are, so he either likes it or not. My other cousin sent me the fucking MYM video, praising it, and talked about how he hasn't listened to them for a while. Normal people don't fucking go on a rant about how this song is not IF, and by IF they mean old IF, and by old IF they mean the oldest IF, but not truly the oldest IF, like demo days IF, but old-old IF.

Have no mistake, everyone - me included - is a pretentious fuck here, and it is pretty much a role playing session, where we have fun at eachother's expense.

 

[eochaid]

New So, how long do we have to wait for some of you to understand that the R2R-ASOP era is also old IF by now?

You don't have to. You just need to learn how to read what we write.

Also, for fucks sake, remember that people are comparing this, not here, to their melodeath years, not their mid-era. Which means that here you keep a bit of decency .

 

[eochaid]

I personally have my two cousins as test subjects.

I personally have my family, wife, cousins, brother, as test subjects. And all of them always say the same. The music is good, it's the vocals that don't do it for me.

 

[The Grayfox]

To be fair, "old In Flames" has always held the same meaning for me. The Jester Race-Clayman really. I consider that the cut-off. That's my personal take. There is an evolution from TJR to Clayman for sure, but I don't find the shift to be as drastic as the shift from RTR-onwards. I started using the term "old In Flames" probably in 04/05 after STYE when it became clear they weren't going back.

 

[eochaid]

Yes. That's how it used to be for me. In fact, it still is. But, for the sake of discussion, I, here, use old IF to talk about the Jesper's era. Where there was, with, as I said, STYE as an exception, a common ground to approach music.

 

[Jester Slave]

I meant my cousins as an example of the people you won't see here ever, because they don't give a fuck about bs like this, just like I am also not on all of the hundres of artists' fan forum to express my opinion about their every breath. I am sure I am listening to a bunch of songs or even record, about which their fans are having a meltdown somewhere on the internet.

It doesn't matter if your family is off-put by Anders' voice because clearly there are a lot of people who either like it, or at least find it bearable. But 98% of the listeners won't engage in discussions like these, because they don't give a fuck. They find the material, they listen to it, then they keep listening to it if they like ir, or won't listen to it again if they don't. So it doesn't matter if you guys "scientifically" prove that Anders is shit, the music is shit, the harmonies are lame and Tanner drums too hard, if the casual listeners will like it.

That's why I say that we are making make-believe here, like some of us are the people who like their X output, some of you are the people who like their Y output, and we can pretend that these discussions will decide IF's fate. Then they go on a tour, they sell it out, rake in the money from people who doesn't even know this board exist.

 

[eochaid]

I meant my cousins as an example of the people you won't see here ever, because they don't give a fuck about bs like this, just like I am also not on all of the hundres of artists' fan forum to express my opinion about their every breath

Yes. That's why I also quoted my family. Though I made a mistake. When I show to my wife, she asks me "what happened to them? They used to be good".