New album Foregone out February 2023

[DE4life]

I randomly found this thread on another forum talking about the Clayman remaster:

So In Flames just re-recorded Clayman (the song)...

What do you think? Personally, I hate it. Which is funny because I actually like modern IF but being accustomed to the gritty sound of the original (which I've always kinda hated) this just feels wrong. :lol:

sevenstring.org

Firstly, good to know we weren't the only ones who hated these remakes. They are pretty much universally panned throughout the thread as being total shit.

Some funny stuff in there though.

I actually love Battles. Both the songwriting and production but this song just feels rushed production-wise.

I can't imagine "loving" anything about Battles, let alone the utterly simplistic songwriting and wafer-thin, wimpy production.

all they've proved with this exercise is that there is far, far more to a good song than the notes you play. It's a triumvirate of the notes, the performance and the production which captures the performance. I think the latter two have utterly failed here, taking a good song and making it sound awful.

Indeed so. If Clayman had never been released and modern IF released that album note-for-note nowadays, it'd be nowhere near as good because of Benson and the band as a whole being much more shit now. The Clayman remakes proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Foregone proved they could still fake being a metal band by copying other band styles, but that's about it.

I wish the current lineup would just take on another name and that Jesper, Peter, Daniel, Glen, and some singer would just get together and write some badass music again.

Funny how this dude's wish basically came true with THE, swapping Glen for Engelin and the singer being Stanne.

I can't believe these guys are still around. I lost interest after The Jester Race.

Lmao, for people who don't think fans like this exist, there you go. Lost interest after The Jester Race. OK.

So controversial... I never liked Clayman... I lost interest in this band because of how let down I was by this album. The new recording sounds like a pop song guitarist recording to a metronome... Listening to both back to back, I prefer the new recording, but still dislike the music. I think the new guitar tone fits the style of the album better, even if it is more lifeless and less edgy.

I'm not even sure what to make of this. Never liked Clayman, but presumably the stuff before that, yet you prefer the new recording? Dafuq. Also a lifeless guitar tone without edge fits the album better? The original album? Bizarre comment.

The Whoracle/Colony/Clayman-era is peak In Flames, IMO.

I mean, yes, but why leave out TJR?

Wow, really bad. Yet also the best thing I've heard from them since....Clayman (which I don't even really like).

Lol. The Clayman remake better than everything on Reroute and CC... yeah, sure.

I still think Lunar Strain and Subterranean were peak In Flames, but I know that's a pretty unusual opinion to have. One of the first albums I got as a kid was a cd release of those two together. I remember then getting Jester Race and being totally disappointed. They got too sugary I guess

I can only imagine Slave's response to this. Look, I like Lunar and Sub too, but the peak of In Flames? They were demos and it's not like TJR is a significant leap from Subterranean.

Ordinary Story was exactly my first "WTF" moment with In Flames. But then the rest of Colony was so good it kind of made up for it. Clayman was them saying "nah, we were onto something with Ordinary Story, let's dial that up 50% on this next album." (facepalm) If it weren't for the pretty strong riffs in a lot of places, Clayman would be unlistenable.

And people think me, Eochaid and A88 are elitists this guy puts us to shame.

Well, anyway, a lot of that thread makes me feel like a Ciko-esque fanboy.

 

[Xpyro125]

Honestly, when it comes to Battles, I can genuinely see there being something to enjoy if you 1. Love pop metal (And I’ll be honest, I actually kinda do), and 2. Haven’t heard/don’t like anything actually good from In Flames. Number 2 is usually the dealbreaker, the sheer legacy of unfathomably better music is just too blinding for me to ignore.

As for anyone who prefers the re-recordings… No, you’re either just contrarian to be contrarian, or you’re a psy-op.

 

[GraemeSinclair]

I watched a recording of Alias on YouTube from the show I was at a couple of weeks ago. Like most of ASOP, it's not one of my favourites, I've heard it live quite a lot and I can take or leave it, but (as has been mentioned on here of late) if it had the kind of vocals Anders is using live at the moment on the studio recording, I would probably listen to it and enjoy it a lot more.

Anyway, the reason I mentioned is because after listening to it, I decided to work out the acoustic interlude on guitar. I'd never had the notion to do so before, but it's one of the most fun guitar parts I've ever learned, and I've spent far more time than I would have imagined noodling through it since.

 

[DE4life]

The acoustic interlude in Alias is pretty nice indeed. A cool throwback to something you'd hear on Lunar Strain. Quite weird to have that in the middle of what is a very typical commercial IF track for the period, but somehow it just works. I have to believe that was Jesper's work - the guy just gets how song structure and transitions work. It's something that gets noticeably worse after he leaves. SOAPF isn't too bad, but it's also pretty straightforward in terms of arrangements, with New Dawn as the only song that really presents a challenge on that album.

Siren Charms is where Jesper's absence in this regard is really felt. So many parts of that album, structurally, just fail to flow correctly. When The World Explodes is a good example of this. The Nightwish-style chorus just feels so out of place, like it was spliced in from a totally different song. Whilst Jesper was in the band, this simply wasn't an issue and I do think he played a big part in how smooth IF's songs flowed during the period he was in the band. Recruiting Benson did help in this regard, but only in the sense of everything becoming much simpler and not requiring any significant effort as structurally the songs of the Benson era are mostly incredibly basic. Wallflower is an exception but from memory it was one of the few songs of the period that Engelin was largely responsible for, so, that's probably why.

 

[DE4life]

What an absolute beast of a song this is. Just goes hard af from start to finish. Great melodies, heavy riffs, frenetic drumming, pounding bass, and those vocals. God damn. It's incredibly tragic that we went from Anders arguably at his peak on CC (in terms of his fry scream, at least, although I'd personally posit Colony) to his absolute lowest point on ASOP. What the hell happened? I'm not sure I've ever seen such a dramatic vocal degradation from one album to the next - considering we're only talking 2-3 years between those albums. He must have absolutely destroyed his voice on the CC tour. Literally wrecked it to the point of no return. We never, ever heard anything close to CC vocals again. For a while he went with the half-scream/half-yell and has now transitioned into the safer deeper growl, but CC was the definitive end of fry scream Anders.

Then we consider production - CC is maybe slightly too in-your-face, but how do we go from that to the soft, wimpy, sterile production of ASOP? Going from one album to the next, you'd assume the entire band hated CC as they got as far away from that sound as they could afterwards and never went back.

 

[DE4life]

I see Anders' favourite person, Jon Schaffer, got three years probation for his role in the capitol riots. Sounds like the information he gave the feds was pretty crucial in them securing a number of sentences against high-ranking Oathkeepers members, which is probably how he escaped jail time. He's also released a carefully curated statement expressing remorse for his actions and apologizing. Obviously you can't help but be cynical about that, but I wonder if he'll be welcomed back into the metal scene. Personally I can't say I've given a shit about anything he's released in 20 years or more, and I'm not sure he'll ever be able to resume a normal career in music. He has apparently been offered witness protection by the Government, but if he took that then his career in metal would indeed be over. He'd have to accept working a normal, unremarkable job somewhere for the rest of his life, pretty much, as he'd need to stay under the radar.

I guess he'll have to assess whether he's under serious threat from those he helped convict.

 

[The Grayfox]

I've followed Jon's career for almost 25 years. I've been a huge fan of Iced Earth since I was a kid. I worked for Jon and Iced Earth for about three years. I've had conversations with him. I can tell you that he feels no remorse about the entire thing. The only remorse he does feel is that he got caught. His views and his politics have not changed in the last three years. As you said, the statement was carefully curated, including the bit about joining a church. The guy who wrote Night of the Stormrider, a concept album about his struggles and abuse at the hands of the church, has all of a sudden 'found God.' It's all bullshit.

I don't think he'll be in witness protection for the time being. I talked to somebody who has been in regular contact with him for the last three years and he has essentially been writing and recording music the entire time. He probably wouldn't be doing that if he doesn't plan to release it. I also don't know that he has testified against anybody. Yet. He does have an agreement in place that he will testify in the future to help them nail Oathkeepers if they need him to. He got probation and community service because he turned himself in the next day and has cooperated with everything they've asked him to do. Still, his statement comes across like he's blaming Fox News. We're supposed to be believe that this supposed strong-willed patriot fell victim to the Trump cult. He didn't. He knew exactly what he was doing because this is who he is. I mean, he IS a victim of the Trump cult, but its not because he fell for a scam -- he believes this shit.

 

[DE4life]

Sounds about right. I liked Iced Earth's stuff up until it became all about American patriotism and then totally lost interest. Never really been into Demons & Wizards.

It'll be interesting to see how Schaffer behaves if Trump becomes President again. Not sure if it'll affect the general state of play in regards to Jan 6 prosecutions and deals or not. At that point America will essentially have a dictator in power so all bets will be off. Sadly I'm expecting Trump to emerge victorious, which may well be the death knell of whatever's left of US democracy.

Regardless of that Jon will be a polarising figure in the metal scene if he returns. I've seen plenty of metal fans defending him so I don't think he'll be totally toxic, but any orbit he enters will lead to a fractured fan base. At the very least we know he won't be collabing with In Flames. Might set up a band with good old Bryce though.

 

[The Grayfox]

Most of Iced Earth's fan base at this point is Trumpers. It's a small group of people who believe Jon did nothing wrong, he has nothing to apologize for and if you even mention otherwise, you are attacked and called a "soy boy." It's pretty sad that his once large following and fanbase and has been reduced to a small bunch of dumb rednecks. It is an extremely toxic group of people.

Iced Earth up through Horror Show is fucking gold imo. As far as straight forward heavy metal, it's up there as some of my absolute favorite music ever.

 

[DE4life]

I'm more or less the same in terms of enjoying their albums. When Barlow left they went downhill kind of quick. I really like The Dark Saga - I Died For You and A Question of Heaven are amazing songs. Something Wicked is a brilliant album as well.

I do like "Ten Thousand Strong" from Framing Armageddon, but the album as a whole kind of feels like a sign of things to come in terms of Jon's participation in the Capitol riots so... yeah.

 

[eochaid]

So, he's a traitor and a coward. I want to see the warm welcome that his maga friends are going to give him when he's released out of jail.

 

[The Grayfox]

New Machine Head single out with Anders doing some guest vocals. This is the first time I've ever seen a tour announced and then all four bands collaborating on a single. Pretty interesting marketing really. I imagine this song will be part of MH's set during the tour. Not a bad song either. A bit messy at times, but when you've got this much going on I guess thats to be expected.

 

[Xpyro125]

I’ve never listened to Machine Head, but those instrumentals are exactly what I’ve been craving lately, so I’m definitely going to listen to them more. Don’t like any of the vocals at all though, which is crazy since I like Anders, Andrea, and Cristina a lot as vocalists. I just don’t think they came out well, but that’s life sometimes. I still really like this since the guitarwork is simply phenomenal.

 

[drawntoblack]

Do yourself a favor and go straight into The Blackening. It's by far their creative peak. Older albums are also great as they pioneered quite a few things but The Blackening saw them get proggier, longer songs but concise writing and nothing is crammed up just for the sake of adding more.

Later albums, I don't really like. They incorporated cheesy orchestrations and overall feels like their entire sound regressed, it's actually very comparable with In Flames that way when you look at the last 10 years of what both bands have been doing.

 

[The Grayfox]

I think Unto The Locust is a very good album as well. Bloodstone and Diamonds has it's moments but I would agree that The Blackening is their peak. An absolutely amazing record. I'll take ANYTHING in their discography over The Burning Red and Supercharger.

Some trivia for you -- I'm in the Now We Die video, which was shot in a warehouse in Oakland, California. I'm not gonna tell you who I am though.

 

[drawntoblack]

Honestly I was never a hardcore fan or anything, for me they are one of those bands that I more than just like but at the same time I will rarely listen to them on my own. They are in that category of bands that are universally liked a lot so its my go-to for road trips or just hanging out with other people.
That being said, I can listen to their 90s stuff and appreciate it for being such an accurate timestamp of that era. You can't fault Rob Flynn for wearing baggy clothes, rocking frosted tips and rapping when that's what everyone was doing and it was a dominant, prevailing culture.

You can very much so blame him for lots of weird stylistic choices in their recent music on the other hand.

Anyway, I was hoping for reuniting of the original line up as much as anyone else and I though those live in studio videos were top notch.