New album Foregone out February 2023
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Xpyro125
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I think STYE has an inherently nostalgic sound before anything else, and I love it too. I don’t love how everything turned out, but what works absolutely works. That being said, I do still wish there was more technical guitarwork here and there, and man, if the production wasn’t exactly the way it is (Say it was Reroute’s instead), the album just wouldn’t work.
I appreciate you taking the deep dive on this one even if it's not a trip you particularly enjoyed.
I've never had particularly strong feelings about Bottled either way, it struck me as a typical STYE song, mostly chugging chord-driven alt metal but no worse than the average track on that album. That said, I still think the lead guitar part that comes in at 1:35 and then gets harmonised is the closest thing to the classic IF sound on the whole of Soundtrack (Värmlandsvisan notwithstanding).
I think I like all the same bits of In the Dark as you do, for much the same reasons, but I also like enough of the parts you don't that the song as a whole works for me. The intro/verse riff admittedly isn't the most exciting or inventive, and if it was the only thing the song had to offer, it would bore me too. As it is, in the broader context of the components of the song I do like, I think it serves a function. Vocally (and probably in general), my favourite IF album is Whoracle, and I don't think we've really had prolonged low growls on a studio recording from In Flames since then. Colony still had a good growl-to-scream ratio, but the verses of ITD give me a sound that I thought I'd never hear on an IF album again, and I think the riff complements the growls well, creating a bludgeoning effect. I'm not saying In the Dark as good, but I wish Anders had gone full Worlds Within the Margin much more often on the verses of albums from Clayman to I, The Mask, and this feels to me like the closest he's come since.
Most of my favourite IF songs come from before their big singalong chorus era, so I wouldn't say I'm a devotee of that part of their sound, but, to their credit, they have done some very good ones, Trigger, My Sweet Shadow and Crawl Through Knives jump to mind. As we've discussed before, Foregone's biggest issue for me is the execution of its choruses, and the insistence on having so many of them, which is a bugbear that we have in common. I just happen to like the instrumentals and the rest of the songwriting enough that the choruses aren't a dealbreaker for me like they were on Siren Charms or Battles, where they were. I will say that I think ITD isn't one of those problematic choruses. I think the vocals are mostly within Anders' natural range so I don't hear that plastic pitch correction sound, and it's not layered to hell either like Dialogue, Bleeding Out or PLoM. I like the vocal melody and the way it meshes with the instrumentals. I think it's a good, catchy chorus, not just in comparison to the others on Foregone, but in the context of the band's discography in general.
I think the main melodic figure (the one that first plays on acoustic guitars at 1:26-1:33, later comes back at 2:02-2:11 and ultimately becomes the backing instrumental for the chorus) is a classic IF melody that could belong anywhere in their back catalogue, and is one piece of evidence among various on this album that Björn is very capable of composing good music in the Gothenburg style when he puts his mind to it. I'd say the same about the solo. I've been as disillusioned and bored as anyone else with some of the perfunctory wah-pedal noodling that defined the solos on IF albums during the 2010s, but I think this solo is much more tasteful, thought-out and memorable. It gives me shades of Satellites and Astronauts, particularly the latter half, although I also do really enjoy the descending run at 2:57.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk, I expect to have convinced none of you of my case, and that's okay!
I may disagree with people when it comes to liking a song, but I always have respect if someone can articulate why they like a song (or album). I still may not agree, but that's fine, I still appreciate the effort to try and convey a different viewpoint. It would be pretty boring if we all liked the same stuff. I don't think the growls on Foregone are bad, they are technically quite fine and probably the best genuine technique Anders has shown. It's the production and mixing of them that bothers me. I think if the vocals were a bit wider and had a bit more reverb they would bother me a lot less.
I never had a problem with IF choruses up until ASOP, because musically everything was still okay. Anders cleans are admittedly an acquired taste, but in studio at least I don't mind them during 2002-2006 period. His cleans are objectively not very good, but subjectively I don't have any issue with them. ASOP I mainly struggled with the vocals just being mixed badly (in honesty they aren't very good anyway, but SOAPF imo did a much better job of hiding his weaknesses in this regard, whereas ASOP exacerbated them). It's gotten much, much worse for me since 2011, and I really struggle to accept the ridiculous level of manipulation on his clean vocals. Pure Light of Mind is one of those where, in some respects it's done right, but I hate the fact that it doesn't even sound like Anders in the verses. It could just as easily be an AI voice, and that just doesn't sit well with me.
I had never thought about Bottled as a bad song before coming to this forum
Once upon a time Bottled was my most hated IF track by some distance. I still very much dislike it, and never listen to it, but it's been surpassed in terms of my least favourite IF track over the years by much worse songs. Bottled might be garbage, to me, but at least it isn't fake bullshit. I'd put it above a significant amount of Siren Charms and the IF Benson years, which admittedly isn't saying much, but still. Pre-SC, Bottled didn't give me anything I really wanted from an In Flames track in terms of melody or memorable moments, except in very small sections. Even TCP, which I also consider mostly trash, had some nice stuff at the end.
Talking STYE in general, I have more appreciation now for it than I did a decade ago. In terms of their 1994-2008 output (aka the Jesper years) it still sits in second worst place (I rank ASOP below it), but it does have a few songs that I'm fond of.
F(r)iend - Never been a big fan of this one, feels artificially 'heavy' and not particularly interesting.
The Quiet Place - Great modern IF track.
Dead Alone - Not top-tier on record, but sounded fantastic on Used & Abused, and I appreciated the studio version a lot more after hearing the U&A version.
Touch of Red - Actually a fantastic song.
Like You Better Dead - Cringe lyrics, but as a song this one grew on me over time and the chorus is pretty cool and vocally very creative.
My Sweet Shadow - I liked it a lot back in the day, but nowadays I find it a bit boring, honestly. With that said, it's a killer live track.
Evil in a Closet - One of my favourite IF ballads. Instrumentally beautiful.
In Search for I - Quite a nice thrashy song, but much like Scream the chorus absolutely murders the song. "But I am ready to give you the M, it might even be the E" ... give me a break.
Borders and Shading - I've always appreciated how the song title was taken from Microsoft Word. Very random. That aside, I like this one too.
Superhero of the Computer Rage - Good, but not great. Another one which sounds a lot better on Used & Abused.
Dial 595-Escape - My favourite song on the album when it came out, but nowadays I find it pretty boring. The best thing about this song is the story that IF fans would dial 595-Escape and end up pestering some agitated Indian guy, lmao.
Bottled - My opinion on this is well known.
Discover Me Like Emptiness - Should've been on the album. Really cool, atmospheric track.
So yeah, overall I don't mind STYE at all. Production is its biggest weakness by far, but at least we got Used & Abused to showcase these songs in the way they deserved to be listened to. Anders vocals on STYE are, if we're being honest, quite a big return to form after major struggles on Clayman and Reroute. His damaged vocals worked on Clayman, but that album is carried on an incredible wave of momentum by the relentless guitar melodies. Reroute's entire production is fucked up, and the vocals have a robotic quality which makes them weaker. On STYE Anders sounds a lot more ferocious and actually does a lot of cool experimentation with cleaner vocal styles. You can definitely hear the beginnings of a second vocal peak for him (the first being Colony), which reached a high point on Come Clarity before sadly fading away for good (as far as his fry screaming and atypical cleans are concerned).
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I stumbled upon this page which lists an artist's songs from most listened to least on Spotify a while ago, and it turns out they have stats for In Flames: https://kworb.net/spotify/artist/57ylwQTnFnIhJh4nu4rxCs_songs.html
Some interesting viewing in there, Only for the Weak is out in front with nearly double the stream count of the next most popular song (Cloud Connected). I thought Take This Life would be higher because of its recognition through guitar hero (actually, before seeing the figures, I would probably have wrongly guessed at it being their most popular song). Self vs. Self seems very popular, but that's probably down to having two fanbases intersecting. I also never would have imagined that The Jester's Dance is not only by far the most popular track on TJR, but is within the top 10 most popular songs in their entire discography.
Most of the top tracks are singles from their post-Reroute era, but it's nice to see Crawl Through Knives in the top 20 despite having never been a single (and above both The Mirror's Truth and Delight and Angers, which were singles). My favourite songs are waaaay down the list, with Jotun at 75, The Jester Race at 95, December Flower at 155 and Jester Script Transfigured at 164. I knew their newer stuff was more commercial and therefore more popular, but I don't think I realised just how much the people who listen to them are sleeping on their best material.
All of The Tokyo Showdown is dead last, which makes sense, to be honest.
Some interesting viewing in there, Only for the Weak is out in front with nearly double the stream count of the next most popular song (Cloud Connected). I thought Take This Life would be higher because of its recognition through guitar hero (actually, before seeing the figures, I would probably have wrongly guessed at it being their most popular song). Self vs. Self seems very popular, but that's probably down to having two fanbases intersecting. I also never would have imagined that The Jester's Dance is not only by far the most popular track on TJR, but is within the top 10 most popular songs in their entire discography.
Most of the top tracks are singles from their post-Reroute era, but it's nice to see Crawl Through Knives in the top 20 despite having never been a single (and above both The Mirror's Truth and Delight and Angers, which were singles). My favourite songs are waaaay down the list, with Jotun at 75, The Jester Race at 95, December Flower at 155 and Jester Script Transfigured at 164. I knew their newer stuff was more commercial and therefore more popular, but I don't think I realised just how much the people who listen to them are sleeping on their best material.
All of The Tokyo Showdown is dead last, which makes sense, to be honest.
Xpyro125
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TJD is genuinely surprising on both fronts, and the only reason I could see for it doing so well is because of its short length giving a lot of replay value. I really like it, don’t get me wrong, but even over Moonshield, December Flower, and Anders’ favorite, Graveland? That’s shocking.
The End being at number 8 is a fucking crime. Fucking bullshit children’s choir single is that high? At least The Truth is an unfortunately addictive, sugary pop metal song. The End just doesn’t have the same chutzpah as The Truth, which… Is more of a backhanded compliment to The Truth than anything. I wouldn’t want anything from Battles touching the top 50, Drained, Wallflower, and maybe the title track being the only songs I’d be cool with getting there, but goddamn The End at number fucking eight? That’s just wrong.
We love seeing the love for Crawling Through Knives, same with Dead End reaching 28th. I would’ve expected everything but the singles to be horrifically underrated, but I’m happy with how Come Clarity turned out overall results-wise.
The End being at number 8 is a fucking crime. Fucking bullshit children’s choir single is that high? At least The Truth is an unfortunately addictive, sugary pop metal song. The End just doesn’t have the same chutzpah as The Truth, which… Is more of a backhanded compliment to The Truth than anything. I wouldn’t want anything from Battles touching the top 50, Drained, Wallflower, and maybe the title track being the only songs I’d be cool with getting there, but goddamn The End at number fucking eight? That’s just wrong.
We love seeing the love for Crawling Through Knives, same with Dead End reaching 28th. I would’ve expected everything but the singles to be horrifically underrated, but I’m happy with how Come Clarity turned out overall results-wise.
Yeah, I wondered if length had something to do with it, but they have other short instrumentals that are nowhere close and it's a full 40 places above the next most popular song from TJR (Moonshield) so it's not just like people are listening to the album and that song's getting a lot of repeats because it's short.
ThePhobiac
be at ease
I saw DE4Life offer his thoughts on the STYE songs, figured I'd jump in on the action:
F(r)iend - The verses aren't really my thing and the chorus feels half-baked, but that main riff is fun. I actually love the bridge.
The Quiet Place - Fun song, seeing it on Headbanger's Ball back in the day when I was new to the band was always fun.
Dead Alone - The "Scorn" of STYE. A classic of their middle-era.
Touch of Red - Fun, a bit short. I like the outro a lot.
Like You Better Dead - This one was always a miss for me.
My Sweet Shadow - Third In Flames song I ever heard. Classic, probably my favorite song on the album.
Evil in a Closet - My favorite IF ballad. The verse that starts with "I sink in waters deep" is my personal favorite lyrical work from Anders.
In Search for I - Awesome song that anticipates Come Clarity. The chorus lyrics are a bit silly, but instrumentally it's so good that it makes them charming.
Borders and Shading - Another miss for me -- too plodding, and the key change at the end is no good. But some nice rhythm guitar harmonies here and there.
Superhero of the Computer Rage - Very fun song, no other observations.
Dial 595-Escape - Another great track. I love the synths during the final pre-chorus. Great guitar harmonies here.
Bottled - A short and fun "party's over" song that I always liked. The guitar harmonies in the bridge are classic IF.
Discover Me Like Emptiness - Very good one, very much a fan of the atmospherics.
A very eclectic but very quality album. To me it still felt like the same band that did Colony.
F(r)iend - The verses aren't really my thing and the chorus feels half-baked, but that main riff is fun. I actually love the bridge.
The Quiet Place - Fun song, seeing it on Headbanger's Ball back in the day when I was new to the band was always fun.
Dead Alone - The "Scorn" of STYE. A classic of their middle-era.
Touch of Red - Fun, a bit short. I like the outro a lot.
Like You Better Dead - This one was always a miss for me.
My Sweet Shadow - Third In Flames song I ever heard. Classic, probably my favorite song on the album.
Evil in a Closet - My favorite IF ballad. The verse that starts with "I sink in waters deep" is my personal favorite lyrical work from Anders.
In Search for I - Awesome song that anticipates Come Clarity. The chorus lyrics are a bit silly, but instrumentally it's so good that it makes them charming.
Borders and Shading - Another miss for me -- too plodding, and the key change at the end is no good. But some nice rhythm guitar harmonies here and there.
Superhero of the Computer Rage - Very fun song, no other observations.
Dial 595-Escape - Another great track. I love the synths during the final pre-chorus. Great guitar harmonies here.
Bottled - A short and fun "party's over" song that I always liked. The guitar harmonies in the bridge are classic IF.
Discover Me Like Emptiness - Very good one, very much a fan of the atmospherics.
A very eclectic but very quality album. To me it still felt like the same band that did Colony.
Xpyro125
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A true “last call, get the fuck out of the bar” song. Maybe we’ve been wrong about the good it can do this entire time.
I don't think it's so much people sleeping on their best material as the people listening to newer In Flames just not really being traditional MDM fans. I would imagine these people listen more to stuff like BMTH, Korn, Ghost, etc than Arch Enemy, Soilwork, Carcass or DT. Plus, as Galvanized always reminds us, the quality from phone speakers improves per album - and if you can't play music from a phone speaker, does it even have any real value?
Tokyo Showdown should not just be last but banished from all historical record. What a piece of shit.
Well, it certainly works to get me to stop listening, so mission accomplished. Although I'll always have time for Discover Me Like Emptiness - Bottled just gets skipped. In fact, I don't actually have it on my random playlist at all.
Xpyro125
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I should go over what I think of STYE’s tracks at some point like how you guys did, but I just haven’t felt like doing it. I will say that I’ve always felt Discover Me Like Emptiness should’ve been the closer, not even just because Bottled is quite possibly the worst closing track they’ve done (But goddamn does End the Transmission give it a run for its money), but also because it’s just a wonderful way to close out the album in a way that epitomizes the whole thing more than Bottled does. I think Bottled has a message that could’ve worked for a closing track, but everything about the execution destroys that good will for me.
ThePhobiac
be at ease
I meant it more in the sense that everyone's kind of worn out and getting ready to leave, but the vibe is still good and happy goodbyes are being exchanged.
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