New Editorial up: What Lordi Winning Eurovision Really Means

[Jim LotFP]

http://www.lotfp.com/content.php?editorialid=54

 

[Occam's Razor]

People's behavior here is basically the same like in terms of metal presence in the media in general. On the one hand, it's all about the underdog-thing and criticising how metal is treated by the media; but on the other hand, people are all whiny about their favorite music not being on MTV or other music channels.
I don't understand this desire for exposure. Whenever metal gets the treatment on tv, it's either mocked, or the bad representatives are highlighted and sold as the epitome of what the genre is about. I have never seen intelligent and appropriate media coverage of heavy metal. Hell, even the scene's own print media don't cover metal properly for the most part!

 

[Jim LotFP]

Visual aids for Eurovision 2006 Performances:

Finland: Lordi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6VzdtmrP6Y

Sweden: Carola
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgfLCiL0Ajo

Ukraine: Tina Karol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKoaeEA4L2U
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etQ_Ta3m04w an attempt to figure out what it is she's singing, hahaha)

Ireland: Brian Kennedy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-1AQkS5Nt4

Bosnia-Herzegovina: Hari Varešanoviæ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UUHcbg1UQY

Turkey: Sibel Tüzün
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaqE-f6niMM

Spain: Las Ketchup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny6sK-WBEVk

Germany: Texas Lightning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlDm86hE99M

UK: Daz Sampson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUoKQmgbl8
(I mean, WHAT THE FUCK, and this guy was talking some serious shit leading up to this)

Iceland: Silvia Night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XXzC3PvicE
"Hello, is it God? What's up, dawg?"

Lithuania: LT United
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm0aVYnzFN4
(notice how the guy to the left doesn't move at all until... well... and this still came in sixth)

 

[Jim LotFP]

ahhh... the background vocals during Lordi's performance at Eurovision were not done by the keyboard player at all, despite the TV angles always focusing on her... which makes her waving her head around pretending to play keyboards even more bizarre. The guy dressed up in the KISS paint, Pasi Rantanen from Thunderstone, did all the high pitched vocals. I don't even think he was visible on stage with the camera angles they used, but he was with the band for all the backstage shots.

 

[Jim LotFP]

The Dutch entry Treble and Belgium's Kate Ryan doing a performance of Metallica's Nothing Else Matters. \m/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXLyqXPo7-s

 

[AMBR]

Enjoyed the education and perspective you provided, Jim, and I think you have some good points. Surely, Lordi isn't metal and seems to me, to be closer to pop rock than hard rock.

But I'm looking at their win from a completely different stand point. I think the fact they won was basically more of a rebellion against cheesy contests like this that focus more on sex appeal than musical validity, regardless of genre. From reading detailed descriptions of nearly all the acts and seeing several of the videos, it seems that strutting ass was the prime focus in many cases over musical talent. (not all, just a whole lot.)

Does that mean the pop-loving, skin worshipping masses have evolved and changed their values? Nope.

I think the massive internet campaigns won this contest. There were quite a few and it gave people who may not normally watch these things the incentive to protest having this pap constantly given top billing in the media. On many sites, people were saying that they, their friends, their parents etc. were voting for Lordi to "stick-it" to the pop phenomena and the media that promotes it. Honestly, I think Lordi is a "protest-win" that demonstrates the power of the internet, that's it. And I'm not saying whether that's a good or bad thing, I just think it's really an interesting commentary on our society today.

Like it or not, that's my opinion.

 

[Jim LotFP]

From reading detailed descriptions of nearly all the acts and seeing several of the videos, it seems that strutting ass was the prime focus in many cases over musical talent. (not all, just a whole lot.)

... keep in mind that it is the women who have the more revealing outfits. There were plenty of not-naked guys performing songs that I can't remember a damned thing about. haha. At least I mentioned Iceland, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Albania. heh.

I think the massive internet campaigns won this contest. There were quite a few and it gave people who may not normally watch these things the incentive to protest having this pap constantly given top billing in the media. On many sites, people were saying that they, their friends, their parents etc. were voting for Lordi to "stick-it" to the pop phenomena and the media that promotes it. Honestly, I think Lordi is a "protest-win" that demonstrates the power of the internet, that's it. And I'm not saying whether that's a good or bad thing, I just think it's really an interesting commentary on our society today.

You're overestimating the influence of the internet here. Lordi was already a top selling band in Finland, so their very invitation to compete meant some programming director thought they weren't completely outrageous in this context. I could be cynical and say that it was an intentional bid to attract and control those that thought they'd be protesting by voting for Lordi. How does that line go from that Napalm Death song about the music industry?

Next step is to gain approval from those ignore, those who recognize the charade.

Once they were in, there was massive mainstream media coverage of Lordi. Front page news. Prime time coverage. Religious groups in Finland and Greece (and probably more) were outraged. For all of the build-up shows to Eurovision around the continent, there was debate as to whether the promotional video for their song was too intense for Eurovision viewers.

It was entirely an event played out in the mainstream. Whatever discussion happened on message boards was pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme. It might have been reflective of what was happening out in the real world, but the "internet community" did not generate all of those 12, 10, and 8 point positions that gave Lordi the victory.

And as the end of the editorial points out, anyone voting for Lordi as a protest against Eurovision voted for the wrong act, and in fact were voting for the exact same thing that Eurovision always peddles out, disguised in different clothing. Protesting without thinking about how your protest relates to the object of the protest is often counterproductive, and Eurovision 2006 is a shining example of that.

 

[AMBR]

Ha, see! No naked guys! That contest is more biased then I thought!

Seriously, good points, though. I agree with most of them. It does seem clear, that Lordi's win is less of a victory for metal, rock or any other kind of musical "enlightenment", but more of a hype factor be it internet releated or otherwise.

 

[General Zod]

I don't understand this desire for exposure. Whenever metal gets the treatment on tv, it's either mocked, or the bad representatives are highlighted and sold as the epitome of what the genre is about. I have never seen intelligent and appropriate media coverage of heavy metal. Hell, even the scene's own print media don't cover metal properly for the most part!

Well said. I'd like to see the popularity of Metal reach a point where the artists can survive solely on their music. The simple fact of the matter is, Metal is about aggression. If the artists begin making money hand over fist, driving Ferraris and banging supermodels, all that aggression will quite naturally dissipate. At that point, the quality of music goes from "Ride the Lightning" to "St. Anger".

Zod

 

[DecTV]

"Lordi is not a heavy metal band. In every interview I have seen surrounding Eurovision, before the win and after, they have called themselves "heavy rock" or "hard rock." If you can't say the words "heavy metal" when a camera is in your face, I'm not sure the heavy metal community should be rallying around you, or particularly caring about what you do in a pop contest."

Lordi talking about hard rock and heavy rock instead of metal or heavy metal in interviews is probably more oriented towards the international and general audiences. Seems like a marketing ploy. In finnish interviews he uses the words 'metal' all the time. Since you (Jim) seem to live here you've probably noticed metal is more accepted and commonly used here in the media or in general. For example in Sweden everything seems to be lumped into the hårdrock-category at least in record stores (ie. CDON swedish version).

On the account of the short songs the Eurovision rules state: "The maximum duration of the song and its performance shall be three minutes." So Lordi had to cut the song by a minute.

"Neither heavy metal nor hard rock were victorious at Eurovision this year. Pop music was. Lordi is, and has always been, a pop-oriented band with image being more important than music. The tragedy is that nobody seems to know the difference anymore."

Never was a big Lordi fan since I don't care that much for gimmicks but he has got a metal attitude. The guy's been wearing the masks for 12 years. What I've noticed is that he expresses himself more freely in the finnish interviews and his attitude comes out better. And them winning is still a good kick in the balls for the Eurovision song contest and the metal community seem to have taken them more in a positive way. Even in Blabbermouth.

At the end of it Lordi is as metal or pop as Manowar or Gwar. They just wear different outfits.

 

[Jim LotFP]

Lordi talking about hard rock and heavy rock instead of metal or heavy metal in interviews is probably more oriented towards the international and general audiences. Seems like a marketing ploy.

Emphasis mine, because I think what you're saying here supports my views on the subject. Sounds like the way a politician would talk, pleasing the people you're talking to at the time.

In finnish interviews he uses the words 'metal' all the time. Since you (Jim) seem to live here you've probably noticed metal is more accepted and commonly used here in the media or in general. For example in Sweden everything seems to be lumped into the hårdrock-category at least in record stores (ie. CDON swedish version).

In the States, stores that don't have a specific "metal" section put all that stuff into the "Rock/Pop" section, which basically has everything except rap, jazz, and classical. In any event, I don't expect the larger "general music" stores to pay as much attention to names and delineation as the bands performing the music.

As far as being more accepted here... it obviously is, although I'm stuck on exactly why or how. Having metal more ingrained in the mainstream music scene (as all the #1 chart placements proves that it is) is confounding. But most of it seems to be a standard formula centered on keyboards and what have you. But then Reverend Bizarre gets a #2 single with a 21 minute song called Slave of Satan so I am really confused about the whole thing.

But I find that awareness and fandom of independent and underground (Spinefarm, subsidiary of Universal Music Group doesn't count there) heavy metal acts are no greater here than the States. In fact, by my personal contact with people anyway, it's less. Maybe there isn't a need to dig deeper when so much is right there for you? I should look into this a little deeper.

On the account of the short songs the Eurovision rules state: "The maximum duration of the song and its performance shall be three minutes." So Lordi had to cut the song by a minute.

... I am not a fan of "single edits," and I don't know if I consider them to be worse than writing for single-length in the first place. hmm.

Never was a big Lordi fan since I don't care that much for gimmicks but he has got a metal attitude. The guy's been wearing the masks for 12 years. What I've noticed is that he expresses himself more freely in the finnish interviews and his attitude comes out better.

So is this "you don't get to look at my face unless the interview is in English" thing is new, eh? Or was that just an excuse because he didn't have all the face makeup/prosthetics on or something?

And them winning is still a good kick in the balls for the Eurovision song contest and the metal community seem to have taken them more in a positive way. Even in Blabbermouth.

Obivously I disagree with this whole bit since it was the entire reason for the editorial to begin with.

At the end of it Lordi is as metal or pop as Manowar or Gwar. They just wear different outfits.

Maybe Lordi or Gwar has a Bridge of Death or an Achilles, Agony and Ecstasy in Eight Parts in their repertoires, but somehow I doubt it. Manowar may have some silly little songs and silly little costumes, but they've also got some very powerful shit they've done that can not just be ignored.

 

[brandisgbg]

Fun that Lordi won, a real buttkicker for ESC, and many more...
But!
Im more impressed over the fact that someone acctually remembered and mentioned that Eirikur sang on long lost Gardenians cd "Soulburner"
Now, To mention, Eirikur, he competed for Iceland in ESC way back, before Artch, but it was there Artch discovered his talents...

 

[DecTV]

Emphasis mine, because I think what you're saying here supports my views on the subject. Sounds like the way a politician would talk, pleasing the people you're talking to at the time.

And just yesterday Lordi said in finnish tv that he would like to see a more metal inspired show next year in Helsinki.

What I've read and listened of interviews through the years of finnish metal bands there's always a difference how they talk to a music reporter and a regular reporter. Most of them don't swear that much and moreso try to behave themselves when confronted by the latter. When the area is so grey with the genres, especially with Lordi, so it's probably better to use words like heavy rock for some TV interviews to soften the blow. BBC even through a hardcore deathmetal at one point in their reporting on the Eurovision result.

As far as being more accepted here... it obviously is, although I'm stuck on exactly why or how. Having metal more ingrained in the mainstream music scene (as all the #1 chart placements proves that it is) is confounding. But most of it seems to be a standard formula centered on keyboards and what have you. But then Reverend Bizarre gets a #2 single with a 21 minute song called Slave of Satan so I am really confused about the whole thing.

Well the finnish sung metal is also doing well in the charts. Like Stam1na, Mokoma, Timo Rautiainen and Trio Niskalaukaus. Not much keyboard there.

But I find that awareness and fandom of independent and underground (Spinefarm, subsidiary of Universal Music Group doesn't count there) heavy metal acts are no greater here than the States. In fact, by my personal contact with people anyway, it's less. Maybe there isn't a need to dig deeper when so much is right there for you? I should look into this a little deeper.

You are probably right about that people don't need to dig deeper. I know a few people who are heavily or only interested in the underground stuff. I rarely feel the need to dig deeper than Imperiumi.net. You probably already know http://www.firebox.fi/?page=eng .

So is this "you don't get to look at my face unless the interview is in English" thing is new, eh? Or was that just an excuse because he didn't have all the face makeup/prosthetics on or something?

Not sure what that is about. He's been giving a lot if interviews in these past few days on finnish TV with the camera filming behind him. Could be just for some TV.

Obivously I disagree with this whole bit since it was the entire reason for the editorial to begin with.

Well yeah. Kinda feels more like an american trait to not see this win as a good thing. Maybe if you'd been watching the Eurovision for more than 20 years you might feel different. All in all the win is good for the finnish self-esteem. At least what I've read from the imperiumi.net forum people aren't taking this win all that seriously. Next year in Helsinki we'll see what the impact was at least on the Eurovision.

Maybe Lordi or Gwar has a Bridge of Death or an Achilles, Agony and Ecstasy in Eight Parts in their repertoires, but somehow I doubt it. Manowar may have some silly little songs and silly little costumes, but they've also got some very powerful shit they've done that can not just be ignored.

Last Manowar album I listened to was Hail To England. After that it's been just the video songs and random stuff played on bars and radio. The point I was trying to make was that Lordi and Manowar have pretty awful lyrics and sometimes simple catchy tunes. Doesn't mean other one is a sellout because of Eurovision. Even Nightwish gave it a shot a few years back with an even softer song than Lordi had, but they weren't chosen to represent Finland because of the "expert" panel fiasco. Most finnish metal fans stood behind Nigtwish's attempt which was seen in the overwhelming public vote.

 

[Jim LotFP]

Im more impressed over the fact that someone acctually remembered and mentioned that Eirikur sang on long lost Gardenians cd "Soulburner" Now, To mention, Eirikur, he competed for Iceland in ESC way back, before Artch, but it was there Artch discovered his talents...

He also competed for Norway in 1991. I sort of regret seeing him doing that, part of that Just 4 Fun group. *shivers* And that was the year Carola won. *shivers shivers*

I don't remember 1991 looking so ancient back in the States, but then again I was living it and it all looked so current at the time. Duh, it was current at the time. Seeing footage of 1991 Eurovision now... the bad graphics for TV, that awful fashion sense (well it's not like 2006 Eurovision was the height of respectably dressed people, haha), and telephone reporting of votes. At least they had a live orchestra. um, at least I hope they didn't have an orchestra there just to pretend they were playing. heh.

ayyyyy.

 

[Jim LotFP]

What I've read and listened of interviews through the years of finnish metal bands there's always a difference how they talk to a music reporter and a regular reporter. Most of them don't swear that much and moreso try to behave themselves when confronted by the latter.

I really find that kind of duplicity abhorrent.

Well the finnish sung metal is also doing well in the charts. Like Stam1na, Mokoma, Timo Rautiainen and Trio Niskalaukaus. Not much keyboard there.

I'll not comment (I've heard all of one TR&TN single) but the chances of my liking anything by a band calling itself Stam1na seems very remote.

You are probably right about that people don't need to dig deeper. I know a few people who are heavily or only interested in the underground stuff. I rarely feel the need to dig deeper than Imperiumi.net. You probably already know http://www.firebox.fi/?page=eng

Familiar with Firebox. Saw one of their bands some weeks back. Manitou played to an all but empty building. Pretty good though.

I'm more into the instrumental metal trend at the current moment.

Well yeah. Kinda feels more like an american trait to not see this win as a good thing. Maybe if you'd been watching the Eurovision for more than 20 years you might feel different. All in all the win is good for the finnish self-esteem.

I've heard that a lot. "good for the Finnish self-esteem." Would it have been any different if Tomi Metsäketo had gone to Athens and won?

Last Manowar album I listened to was Hail To England. After that it's been just the video songs and random stuff played on bars and radio.

It's easy to look at Manowar and laugh, but it's also easy to be in awe that they released Triumph of Steel on a major label in the US after grunge hit, and it had absolutely no concession to anything that could remotely be called commercial. It would have been just as unfashionable in an era of Mötley Crüe and Poison or Megadeth and Metallica just as much as it was in an era of Nirvana and Alice in Chains.

You have to separate the wheat from the chaffe to find good Manowar songs, but they're there, and well worth discovering.

The point I was trying to make was that Lordi and Manowar have pretty awful lyrics and sometimes simple catchy tunes. Doesn't mean other one is a sellout because of Eurovision.

It's hard to call Lordi a sell-out because this is the kind of thing they were made to do.

Even Nightwish gave it a shot a few years back with an even softer song than Lordi had, but they weren't chosen to represent Finland because of the "expert" panel fiasco. Most finnish metal fans stood behind Nigtwish's attempt which was seen in the overwhelming public vote.

This would have been even stranger, as there would have been even less of a reason for "metal" to be involved if Nightwish had competed with that song. Not that I know who else was in he thing that year, but I suspect Nightwish would have won the whole thing for the same reason Lordi did if it was handled by fan votes.

The impression I get is that a lot of countries end up sending people that are big stars... in their country. Nobody else knows who the hell they are. Get somebody like Lordi or Nightwish that tours throughout Europe and sells a decent amount of albums throughout the continent and they have a head start on all of the competition just by name value alone.

 

[Jim LotFP]

This thread is missing a great amount of shock and amusement at the video links I posted.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I really find that kind of duplicity abhorrent.

There is a significant difference in band's presentation in the press depending on which country the magazine comes from and how large the publication is. Rock Hard has had several dull interviews with Agent Steel where the bands answers showed them as paranoid ufo-loons - the I read something like your interview with the singer, and it is way more serious. I think, especially in the written press, this is also due to the text-style, which takes statements out of the context. The general, uncensored question-answer-format is not appreciated.

I'm more into the instrumental metal trend at the current moment.

Is there something like a trend? Have I missed something?

 

[Jim LotFP]

Rock Hard has had several dull interviews with Agent Steel where the bands answers showed them as paranoid ufo-loons - the I read something like your interview with the singer, and it is way more serious.

I wish I was listening to Bruce back in 2000 when he was going on about all of this stuff and I thought he was a loon. Nowadays we learn about secret NSA information gathering that's against the Constitution, but the Attorney General is making threats that reporting classified information is illegal and will be prosecuted - which means that any classified yet illegal activity may not be lawfully exposed. Now imagine a little bit that such thinking is not new, just more blatant now.

Sanna knows absolutely nothing about the government, law, or politics of her own country, so I'm blissfully ignorant of how things are here. Although you have to pay a continuing tax to own a television, which makes me want to throw the fucking thing out even more.

I think, especially in the written press, this is also due to the text-style, which takes statements out of the context. The general, uncensored question-answer-format is not appreciated.

Worse, articles are often assigned a specific length, so things are taken out of context and condensed. Yay information sources!

Is there something like a trend? Have I missed something?

Seems so. Hardcore, indie, and metal labels seem to be all over that stuff now. Not on any large scale yet, but dig a little bit and you'll see it's all over the place. Relapse has Don Caballero and Dysrhythmia, Metal Blade's got Arctopus now, Willowtip signed Electro Quarterstaff, I think this is going to be big business in a bit. The resurgence of 80s scale popularity needs its Shrapnel equivalent squad, yes?

 

[Occam's Razor]

The shit that has come up about the doings of the German government and secret service recently have finally confirmed my scepticism about anything relatied to my country. Patriotism is a joke for anybody in any country who's running around with open eyes. What can you be proud of when about two thirds of the world's nations are proven to breach human rights according to Amnesty International?

As for the instrumental trend: I assume you mean "trend" as in "new tendency" rather than "latest fad". It would be good though if Metal Blade stopped signing metalcore crap in favor of this. But Arctopus is only on a sublabel or licensing-thing, I believe. As for the Relapse stuff, they have been doing instrumental craziness since long - remember Karaboudjan.

Still, when I'm looking at myspace, there seem to be a lot of two- or three-piece-bands with a similar concept like Arctopus. At times, I miss the emotion in all this; it is more an outburst of initial energy than depth. As I wrote in my review for Arctopus - we'll see where it goes.

I see we've swerved from the subject of this thread...

 

[Jim LotFP]

As for the instrumental trend: I assume you mean "trend" as in "new tendency" rather than "latest fad".

Yes. I wonder if it be possible for such a thing to be the latest fad.

It would be good though if Metal Blade stopped signing metalcore crap in favor of this. But Arctopus is only on a sublabel or licensing-thing, I believe.

They keep saying "Blackmarket Activities/Metal Blade." What that means exactly, not sure, but if Metal Blade is handling promotion and distribution, then for all intents and purposes, for now they are on Metal Blade.

As for the Relapse stuff, they have been doing instrumental craziness since long - remember Karaboudjan.

And the Fucking Champs made some ripples for instrumental metal years back. There just seems to be a lot more of it surfacing now.

Still, when I'm looking at myspace, there seem to be a lot of two- or three-piece-bands with a similar concept like Arctopus. At times, I miss the emotion in all this; it is more an outburst of initial energy than depth. As I wrote in my review for Arctopus - we'll see where it goes.

Without the over-the-top energy, will it still be heavy metal? If the music calms downs and is still considered metal, and if this stuff explodes in popularity, there are an awful lot of fusion and prog and such that's suddenly going to be retroactively vital to understanding the current heavy metal scene.

I see we've swerved from the subject of this thread...

Not really. It's all about closely examining what is in front of you to understanding more than the first surface impression.