New kick drum editing techniques out there?

[vile_ator]

Hey guys, I haven't been around for a while and was wondering what the consensus was on replacing kicks. Yes I use Drumagog all the time but was wondering what you guys know about using a midi track that follows my click track to assist in editing.

I need to do a lot of editing on a lot of very fast kicks and was looking for any few new options that I may not know about. Things change fast...

I know there are techniques for converting audio to midi and then back again, etc but that will probably yield an ultra fake sound.

What about a way to cut up a kick drum line into all the hits and then have the program phase align them to the grid automatically? Is there an option out there for that?

Can you imagine it? You have a several bars that contain say 64 hits and you would be able to quickly slice them and then snap them. Then I could feed this into Drumagog to replace the damaged and sliced up kicks.

What's Andy doing?

Thanks!

Colin

 

[nowherecatastrophe]

to be honest i end up replacing the kick with programmed parts here and there sometimes, especially on fast 16ths. takes practically no time at all, and drummers end up thinking they're gods. i usually tell them i "cleaned it up abit".

works well if the kick isn't too loud in the overheads with a 120hz or so HPF. you can sometimes hear the original kick bleed when the drums are solo'ed but its inaudible in the complete mix. the next full metal release i do i'll probably be tunnelling off the kick drum to further eliminate the overhead bleed..

if you're still bent on editing, beat detective in protools is what you're looking for..

 

[James Murphy]

What about a way to cut up a kick drum line into all the hits and then have the program phase align them to the grid automatically? Is there an option out there for that?

Can you imagine it? You have a several bars that contain say 64 hits and you would be able to quickly slice them and then snap them. Then I could feed this into Drumagog to replace the damaged and sliced up kicks.

other than the "phase align" part you are describing Beat Detective exactly. with the phase thing you'd have to clarify more what you mean... you mean keeping the original kick and having the samples on another track, and phase aligned with the original?

 

[felipe-x]

so how they do it when drumagog or sound replacement doesnt exist yet? for example bon jovi albums? they use samples on their drums... but how???

 

[greyskull]

beat detective

 

[derfbonker]

Here is an editing tip.... MAKE THE DRUMMER PLAY THE SONG RIGHT!!!!!!!!

I spent 3 nights last week editing drums because the drummer could barely play his own song, much less keep everything in time....

Then after he heard the edited tracks, he acts like he the best drummer in the world, and tells everyone " yeah I really did play that blast beat."

 

[theblackmoon]

Here is an editing tip.... MAKE THE DRUMMER PLAY THE SONG RIGHT!!!!!!!!

I spent 3 nights last week editing drums because the drummer could barely play his own song, much less keep everything in time....

Then after he heard the edited tracks, he acts like he the best drummer in the world, and tells everyone " yeah I really did play that blast beat."

That´s your job. And if he felt like the best drummer, then you have suceeded.
And when someone asks you, you say "yep, he really did play all that, he´s an amazing player."
At least this is what I think...

 

[derfbonker]

Thats what I did...

What sad is that I can play better than this kid, and I am a guitarist.

 

[Jackal_Strain]

I've got some great results from using drumagogs audio to midi function, then run the midi track through dfhs.

 

[derfbonker]

for editing or for sounds?

 

[vile_ator]

Hey you're using Drumagog's audio to midi function? I used it last night but I got a lot of velocity variations and it is acting overly accurate. Do you use a virtual midi cord or do you physically run the midi cord out and then back in? Any suggestions for me on that technique?

Thanks to others for suggestions. Beat detective may work for me on this. Problem is not the drummer, were talking 250 bpm super double bass. Impossible for anyone.

Colin

 

[James Murphy]

Hey you're using Drumagog's audio to midi function? I used it last night but I got a lot of velocity variations and it is acting overly accurate. Do you use a virtual midi cord or do you physically run the midi cord out and then back in? Any suggestions for me on that technique?

Thanks to others for suggestions. Beat detective may work for me on this. Problem is not the drummer, were talking 250 bpm super double bass. Impossible for anyone.

Colin

beat detective is highly useful even when you are not applying any correction as it is an excellent tool for slicing your tracks up at the transients... the best i know of.

 

[kezspez]

Ok so beat detective sounds shit hot, but what about those of us to cheap to run pro tools.. anything similar/recommended/usable in Cubase SX/ Logic?

 

[JonWormwood]

Ok so beat detective sounds shit hot, but what about those of us to cheap to run pro tools.. anything similar/recommended/usable in Cubase SX/ Logic?

Melodyne.

I have it but haven't been able to really do anything with it as I haven't started reading the manual.

 

[fatalforce]

You could always use your ear and make manual edits. It's a bit more tedious but I think it will sound the most realistic.

 

[BassTard]

The new Samplitude Version (10) has got these functions, too. I will write a comment when I receive my Version (about next week).

This is what they promise (link):

In the new "Tempo" menu you will find new commands for audio quantization alongside the tempo/beat markers and metronome settings.

* These are: Detect Transients
* Consolidate Transients
* Split at Transients
* Quantize Audio Object Positions
* Reset Audio Object Quantization
* Fill Object Gaps

These commands reflect the typical working procedure when "adapting" a multi-track drum recording to the VIP grid. All of these commands are applied to the object selection. Furthermore, you can also use a new audio quantization wizard.

Best wishes,
Henning

 

[HeadCrusher]

Ok so beat detective sounds shit hot, but what about those of us to cheap to run pro tools.. anything similar/recommended/usable in Cubase SX/ Logic?

There was a thread a while back where a link to such a technique was posted. It was an entry in some other forum. I downloaded the whole thing so I don't have the link but the title was "Improving the Drum Editing / Beat Detective Style" so maybe you can find it using the search function.

 

[Canaan]

Vile ator, check out this video. It's of AudioSnap in Cakewalk 6. The guys is pretty boring to listen to but I think this is pretty much what you're after.

 

[derfbonker]

Cubase 4 has some stuff like this. It's not as refined as Beat Detective, but it is a big help. You have to select a track, use the calculate hitpoints function, the click divide audio events at hitpoints, and then quantize audio. Helps a lot on those fast 16th note sections and whatnot, but if the drummer decides to play something with triplets, or gets to far off beat, it all goes manual. I also use the warp audio tool a lot to realign the overheads with the corrected snare tracks.

 

[garry666]

I learned this trick from a producer freind of mine, its not replacing the drums but it can really fatten up your kicks if you do it right. first what you do is record a continous sawtooth wave at a frequency arround that of the fundemantal freq of your kick, then run the kicks through a lpf cutting out as much as you can so that you just get the transients from the kick, you then run the kick through a gate and use the side chain feature to trigger the sawtooth wave when the kick is played.