Nightwish

The thing is you can't argue that Tarja can't sing. But Annette's vocal abilities are openly debatable. Don't let my opinion of thinking that Annette cannot sing hurt your feelings. Just simply disagree with me. That's why this thread was started to give your OPINIONS of the band. My opinion is that Annette sux. Others have disagreed and obviously DPP has sold better than of their other albums. So what do I know...right? If someone was to say Tarja sux I would respect their opinion and continue to enjoy Oceanborn thru Once. :D
 
The thing is you can't argue that Tarja can't sing. But Annette's vocal abilities are openly debatable.

This goes both ways. They both have excellent voices for what they do. Since they have different TYPES of voices, and thus different areas of vocal strength, it's honestly useless to try comparing the two or saying that one or the other can't sing - it's like trying to compare an apple to an orange. They may both be sopranos and thus have similar "ranges," but there are between 7 and 10 distinct types of soprano voices (depending on what source you use) - all with significant differences, strengths, characteristics, and - most importantly - sound.

As far as you believing Anette's (spelled with one "n," not two) abilities are "debatable," let's see you do better. Otherwise, I hold my original statement that it's been 5 - FIVE!!! - years (October 2005) and it's time to let it go. :cool:
 
This goes both ways. They both have excellent voices for what they do. Since they have different TYPES of voices, and thus different areas of vocal strength, it's honestly useless to try comparing the two or saying that one or the other can't sing - it's like trying to compare an apple to an orange. They may both be sopranos and thus have similar "ranges," but there are between 7 and 10 distinct types of soprano voices (depending on what source you use) - all with significant differences, strengths, characteristics, and - most importantly - sound.

As far as you believing Anette's (spelled with one "n," not two) abilities are "debatable," let's see you do better. Otherwise, I hold my original statement that it's been 5 - FIVE!!! - years (October 2005) and it's time to let it go. :cool:

I think what he means more is that Annette has had the tendency to be off. Key, tone, whatever. Tarja I don't think I've ever heard her be off. You may not like her extremely operatic style and prefer Annette's more rock/pop vocals, but you can't say Tarja's off.
 
I think what he means more is that Annette has had the tendency to be off. Key, tone, whatever. Tarja I don't think I've ever heard her be off. You may not like her extremely operatic style and prefer Annette's more rock/pop vocals, but you can't say Tarja's off.

I have a classical instrumental background as well as some rock experience on bass guitar and background vox and I have no trouble with operatic styles - I like Simone Simons' (Epica) vocals quite a bit - but for whatever reason Tarja's voice just grates on my nerves to a degree.

One thing I can say for sure is that no matter how easy it seems to perform - instrumentally or vocally - in practice, or in a studio, or in some other controlled environment - that all goes out the window when you're on stage in front of hundreds or thousands of people. Many people cannot handle this kind of pressure, and for most others it leads to increased nervousness either consistently or on occasion, which can tighten up the vocal cords and raise your voice by between a quarter and a half step. Which is disastrous. It's almost impossible for singers to overcome this kind of nervousness on stage because if you try to force everything back in tune, you risk making it even worse. This appears to occasionally be Anette's problem...but again, there are so many bad rock singers out there that butcher almost every show they do that her having the occasional bad performance shouldn't really register as too much of a blip on the radar.

Some vocal types are more suited to live performances - Tarja seems to have one of those voices based on available youtube clips. Voices with stronger vibratos like Tarja's and Simone's are better able to mask any off-key notes because it's easier to pull a voice that has a constantly changing sound back into tune without it being noticed. Anette's voice is more of a contemporary sound - very little vibrato in it and very smooth and steady - and therefore, because of her vocal TYPE, it's harder to keep it in tune or to pull it back into tune without it being noticed if you screw up. This has nothing to do with their capabilities as singers and everything to do with how they were trained and what type of voice they have (which goes back to training and individual preferences of each singer).

Not to mention any external factors not within the singer's control. Sickness? Vocal fatigue? Physical exhaustion? Pregnancy?

Additionally, every stage and auditorium/stadium/arena has different acoustic properties. A few singers can detect the subtle differences and compensate accordingly - usually those who have been trained since they were children. Most singers, however, can't do that.

This doesn't make either a bad singer. Heck, how many singers sound good on the record and then butcher every single goshdarned concert they play? Seems like well over half have this problem. It's incredibly rare for a vocalist to go two months - nevermind a year - without two or three off nights where it's just not there somehow. In opera, you have an understudy or two to step in if it's not there in warmups. Rock bands don't have that fallback.

No vocalist or musician is perfect, and it's unreasonable to expect a vocalist or musician of ANY kind to be perfect every single performance they do. That is what some people here seem to expect out of Anette, and THAT is unreasonable and unattainable.
 
Since 99% of all of the time in my life I spend listening to music will be a studio recording, not a live show, I refuse to savage a singer for not sounding great live. In fact, I don't think very many of them actually do sound great live, for all the reasons NighthawkWatch laid out.
 
I have a classical instrumental background as well as some rock experience on bass guitar and background vox and I have no trouble with operatic styles - I like Simone Simons' (Epica) vocals quite a bit - but for whatever reason Tarja's voice just grates on my nerves to a degree.

One thing I can say for sure is that no matter how easy it seems to perform - instrumentally or vocally - in practice, or in a studio, or in some other controlled environment - that all goes out the window when you're on stage in front of hundreds or thousands of people. Many people cannot handle this kind of pressure, and for most others it leads to increased nervousness either consistently or on occasion, which can tighten up the vocal cords and raise your voice by between a quarter and a half step. Which is disastrous. It's almost impossible for singers to overcome this kind of nervousness on stage because if you try to force everything back in tune, you risk making it even worse. This appears to occasionally be Anette's problem...but again, there are so many bad rock singers out there that butcher almost every show they do that her having the occasional bad performance shouldn't really register as too much of a blip on the radar.

Some vocal types are more suited to live performances - Tarja seems to have one of those voices based on available youtube clips. Voices with stronger vibratos like Tarja's and Simone's are better able to mask any off-key notes because it's easier to pull a voice that has a constantly changing sound back into tune without it being noticed. Anette's voice is more of a contemporary sound - very little vibrato in it and very smooth and steady - and therefore, because of her vocal TYPE, it's harder to keep it in tune or to pull it back into tune without it being noticed if you screw up. This has nothing to do with their capabilities as singers and everything to do with how they were trained and what type of voice they have (which goes back to training and individual preferences of each singer).

Not to mention any external factors not within the singer's control. Sickness? Vocal fatigue? Physical exhaustion? Pregnancy?

Additionally, every stage and auditorium/stadium/arena has different acoustic properties. A few singers can detect the subtle differences and compensate accordingly - usually those who have been trained since they were children. Most singers, however, can't do that.

This doesn't make either a bad singer. Heck, how many singers sound good on the record and then butcher every single goshdarned concert they play? Seems like well over half have this problem. It's incredibly rare for a vocalist to go two months - nevermind a year - without two or three off nights where it's just not there somehow. In opera, you have an understudy or two to step in if it's not there in warmups. Rock bands don't have that fallback.

No vocalist or musician is perfect, and it's unreasonable to expect a vocalist or musician of ANY kind to be perfect every single performance they do. That is what some people here seem to expect out of Anette, and THAT is unreasonable and unattainable.

Tl;Dr ;)

Haha, just kidding, of course.

And I agree with SeaStorm....think about how many concerts you attend VS the amount of time you spend listening to pre-recorded music. And frankly, Anette's a bit bipolar when it comes to shows....one night she's on fire, rocking the crowd, hitting all the notes, another night she might be more withdrawn and off-key. She's still getting in the swing of things.