not looking for a rating. Just advice.

sentinel72

Member
May 14, 2009
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Not my idea to post this here. Seeing how this is a "rate my mix" thread... But you know how it goes when you start a new thread....

Here is a quick guitar and drums mix. Its the start to a cover song...

No bass yet. (I don't own one)


I used Reaper.

The drums are Superior drummer from a guitar pro file. No tweaks. Just some level tweaking in the Superior drummer mixer view. I used some compression. limiting, and eq on the drums. Its just a stereo track, I didnt break the drums out into their own tracks....

The guitars are all DI through my Mbox2. I used nick crow amp sims. With catharsis irs. (thanks Ryan!)

Quad Tracked

100% left 7170 lead
80% left 8505 lead

repeat for the right side.

I used a high pass eq on each guitar track. Eliminating everything below 200

Yeah, I'm new. This isnt awesome. But this is as far as I can get with my current amount of knowledge. I have some recording books on the way to he,p me get further...

What feedback, advice, weak spots, etc can you guys help with?

Code:
http://www.jershangout.com/files/uploads/temp/law-help.wav
 
I'll let others talk about the production more specifically because i'm on a laptop at the moment, but to me the mix sounds like a c-casette demo from 1982. If you are aiming for that kind of thing, then I guess it's fine, but for me it just doesn't cut it.

edit: ghettobass is that you play guitar like you would play a bass, record the DI-signal from guitar and then pitchshift it down 1 octave.
 
nope, that's not what I'm going for.

Which is why I am here and why I posted this.

Record some tracks, set some levels. Render to a stereo track.

Thats as far as I get.

And when I ask I get a lot of "less is more" replies... And while I know they aren't meaning to be a complete lack of help, it really is.

I've got good strong signals. I'm using the same software as folks that are accomplishing great tones. My playing doesn't seem to be the problem...

So there is something else to it.

I guess volume faders, pan knobs, and and EQ just isnt enough.

Now what?
 
but I thought less was more so I left it out... I figured it'd cloud the mix.

JOKE!

:loco:

I'll see what I can do there. I'm no bass player.... But I suppose if I DI it, drop it an octave (gotta figure out how to do that in Reaper) and run it through a bass amp synth or something....
 
I dunno what you did to the drums, but undo it. They sound like they were recorded in a garage with a single mic placed directly over the snare. Maybe the velocities need fixing? SD never sounds anything like that for me.
 
I didnt do anything to them. Maybe that is part of the problem. Its just midi info from a guitar pro file. I adjusted some volumes to get them to be audible through the guitars is all.

Want the midi file?

Velocity? Dunno... I don't even know what that is....
 
yeah all the velocities were set at like 70%, velocity is how hard the drum is being hit. What DAW are you using?
 
I upped the velocities to MAX on all notes and changed the snare choice in Superior Drummer.

No other changes were made.

Still no bass guitar.

Drums are MUCH better.
Code:
http://www.jershangout.com/files/uploads/temp/law2-help.wav
 
You seriously need to learn quite a bit more.. this is fairly awful if I'm totally honest, and the fact that you're going "I barely did anything to the drums" is kinda weird considering they sound like shit. DO something to the drums.

I've got good strong signals. I'm using the same software as folks that are accomplishing great tones. My playing doesn't seem to be the problem...

And this.. your playing is quite sloppy on this, and I don't know what guitar you're using. I remember when my guitarist first got a POD he could not get a decent tone for the life of him. Then he borrowed a guitar with EMGs in it and the tone was instantly 1000x better. Maybe its your playing, maybe its your guitar/pickups, maybe its your mixing, I don't know. But none of them are great.


Apologies if I come across harsh, but you are coming across quite arrogant (especially with your first line.. I don't think you'll find an n/10 rating in a single on of these threads, don't just go by the subforum's title and then get angry when others correct you).

Less is more if you're dealing with decent tracks (Sup2.0 is decent). But you're not going to learn ANYTHING if you just use the raw tracks. Well you'll be a good engineer but a terrible mixer. Abuse every plugin you have. Compression, reverb, EQ, distortion, whatever. Learn what every setting does.
 
No, you arent being harsh Morgan. This is exactly why I posted it.

I've posted about mixing before and the only responses I get are "less is more" or that type of stuff. No actual advice like "Hey, try this on the 2 right side tracks and see what you think..."

So here it is. LESS.

Drums = just straight midi (now with velocities raised) from a guitar pro file. Ran through SD 2.0 If more should be done to them, what would that be? I don't need a step by step, but you could mention a few things couldn't you? Nope. I get "DO something to the drums." Wow. Thanks. We're not dealing with a live recording. They are samples yes? So mic placement and all that is a non issue. If SD 2.0 isnt enough to get a decent drum sound then what else do I need? All I am getting is a rating...

and the fact that you're going "I barely did anything to the drums" is kinda weird considering they sound like shit.

Weird? Why weird? Isn't the first thing someone would ask be "What did you use for drums here?" (if they are trying to help that is...)

I was proactive in telling you guys exactly what you are hearing.

Guitars = Yeah, sloppy. I learned the riff as I played it. Plus I've never quad tracked anything before. So yeah, they are rough at best. But the processing on them is the exact same process that more than a few others have done and they are getting sweet results. So again, WHAT else needs to be done to get this sounding good? All I got was a rating...

Apologies if I come across harsh, but you are coming across quite arrogant (especially with your first line.. I don't think you'll find an n/10 rating in a single on of these threads, don't just go by the subforum's title and then get angry when others correct you).

As I said, not harsh. But if you feel like apologizing, apologize for the lack of advice and nothing but a rating. Which is exactly why I posted it ELSEWHERE. You wanna tell me not to go off of the actual titles of the subforums. That is what seems weird, but ok fine. It's called a rate my mix thread but people don't give ratings, they give advice. Right?

Where is the advice here?

All I see is "the drums are shit. The guitars are shit. Your playing sucks, Maybe your guitar sucks. And you're not going to learn ANYTHING if you just use the raw tracks."

2 days and 10 posts ago we already went over this.

nope, that's not what I'm going for.

Which is why I am here and why I posted this.

Record some tracks, set some levels. Render to a stereo track.

Thats as far as I get.

And when I ask I get a lot of "less is more" replies... And while I know they aren't meaning to be a complete lack of help, it really is.

I've got good strong signals. I'm using the same software as folks that are accomplishing great tones. My playing doesn't seem to be the problem...

So there is something else to it.

I guess volume faders, pan knobs, and and EQ just isn't enough.

Now what?

Its been said what is used, and how it was used in Reaper.

Its also been said exactly how the tones were created.

I'm arrogant? Hardly, I'm the first to admit I'm new at this. (Its in the fucking title to the thread) What reason do I have to be arrogant?

Its fucking frustrating when you POST EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR, advice, and NOT JUST A RATING, they you have people flipping out about that, but in the end what do we have so far? One dude kind enough to help and take a look at the midi for the drums, and what else? ONLY RATINGS. Sure, no number ratings. But still, no advice just a rating. (see my thread title) Now who's being obtuse?

But only saying stuff like, "hey that sucks", and offering NOTHING else is just a rating.

I've lurked here for a while. And from what I have read, there are plenty of great folks here. What do I need to do to speak to them? You guys don't like my name? My avatar? My choice of cover tune to use as an example? Do I remind you of the dude that banged your girlfriend?

WTF??????

See my sig.

Or just ban me and I'll stop coming here trying to better my game when it comes to audio production. Which is what I thought we were doing here.
 
If you would've read your post before you posted it, you would've noticed that it is REALLY hostile and arrogant. You might want to calm down a bit first and stop acting like a drama queen, because after a while we will most likely just ignore your posts and stop replying because nobody wants to read that kind of shit, unless they do it for the lolz. And you just need to learn to take criticism, especially if you ask for feedback. If you decode what people say and turn it into constructive criticism, like "your playing is sloppy" is same as "you need to play it tighter" and "the drums sound like shit" is same as "you need to make drums sound better". We really don't care about the method because there are several, just do it. There are several things that makes me not to listen to the song. First is the guitar tone, second is the sloppy playing, third is the composition, fourth is that I have no idea what genre that is except some subgenre of rock/metal, and fifth is the fact it sounds like shit production wise. When you can fix those, I might give it a listen, but I doubt it.

But just like Morgan said: "You seriously need to learn quite a bit more". This ain't rocket science, but this ain't super easy either like many people might think.
 
Problem is that there's so much to write about that no one can be bothered with that anymore. It usually has been written several times before. And takes a lot of time typing so everyone understands, this post must've taken a hour writing so it ain't that easy and fun to rewrite same general things over and over again.

You need to work a lot with the drums. Start asking questions like: Why doesn't this sound good? What do I need to make it better? How will it sound in the mix, not just soloed?
At the moment there's 2 types of instrument. Drums and guitars. Already there's a problem, no bass. And don't come with excuses like: hey i'm no bassist. Damn, you've already recorded guitars, just do exactly like how you play the guitarriff, minus the chords, that's what ALMOST every bassist do anyhow...

How do get ghettobass? record DI, pitchshift down a octave. Use a compressor or several compressors and/or a limiter to compress that bass to hell and back and bit back to hell. It probably sound like shit now, perhaps not because of the compression but due to the tone of the ghettobass, so use a eq to remove like everything above 200-300hz. Hopefully that crappy sound has been gotten rid of, so start do some minor tweaking to fit the guitars. (just listen until you find that spot where it adds enough bottom to sound full together with all the instruments) BAM! Done whit ghettobass for now. A tip is checking Behindert's songs and threads. That's a Ghettobass, that's sounds way better than many real bass'. I think he's written how he process it aswell.

Drums aren't punchy at all, sounds like directly out of the studio. How do punch? Compress! good place to start are attack 20 ms, rel 100-ish ms, ratio 4 gain reduction: 3-6-12 dBs. Drums tend to get very muddy so use filters to remove lowend, the only one that really needs bottom is the kick and toms. So try a highpass around 100hz on all mics except kick. Use a eq to remove something you don't like about the sound, middy kick, middy snare etc.
Remember that alot of good and big sounding drums usually has lot's of room mics so use them alot.

Guitars sound quite good, imo.

This is as general as it gets. I can't be bothered typing anymore, cuz this is such a big thing to write about and usually will never suite YOUR mix.

A tip is using google instead of the useless search this forum has. Everything I've typed here is explained and discussed in much more detail in other threads. I've added some good links on this blog, http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=218807353&blogId=391290481

Hope this helped, perhaps a bit more constructive.