NYC Protest

Ascendant

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Jun 21, 2010
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Anyone else heard about this? Apparently there's a huge protest going on in Manhattan for some reason, I'm not sure exactly why they're doing it but this is what their site says:

Our Mission

On the 17th of September, we want to see 20,000 people to flood into lower Manhattan, set up beds, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy Wall Street for a few months.

Like our brothers and sisters in Egypt, Greece, Spain, and Iceland, we plan to use the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic of mass occupation to restore democracy in America. We also encourage the use of nonviolence to achieve our ends and maximize the safety of all participants.

Who is Occupy Wall Street?

Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%.

https://occupywallst.org/

Discuss.
 
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You're not sure why? Have you had a look at the world's economy as of late? It's basically people that are sick of that 1%, the people who call the shots and that never get affected by what the rest of us people get
 
IMHO this whole thing is the start of the inevitable. The resultant of thousands of years of master-servant societies. Or in other words, what happens when you can't have that flashy new ipad. And then on top of that you figure you might not even have enough for a can of pork & beans. It's gonna end in one of three ways, from best to worst:

1) Everyone gets a free ipad and a couple of hot dogs.

2) WWIII.

3) Total Anarchy, Chaos and Lawlessness.
 
Restore things to how they were before (exactly the same).
Comparing themselves in any way to the people involved in the Arab spring.

Dismissed.
 
Heard it was going to take place weeks ago.

Again, it's about demanding changes in politics for a real democracy: the same people who drove us into this situation keep ruling the world and the measures taken are still wrong. They are the same people doing the same basically. Many say if we keep going this way, chances are the current recession is a joke compared to what may occur in the near future.

Past and present:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qGu5y-wznc&feature=player_embedded#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_d2B1DMmSU&feature=player_embedded#

Wall St info: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/19/wall-street-protesters-angry

http://antibanks.takethesquare.net/

October 15th World wide:

http://15october.net/

FB links to keep updated:

https://www.facebook.com/WorldRevolutionNow



PEACEFUL, CONSCIOUS and ORGANIZED actions WILL BE THE KEY to a REAL CHANGE
 
I think the problem the U.S. and Europe are facing is the result of free (not fair) global trade on the one hand, and an over-concentration of capitals as an unavoidable outcome of the current global economic system, on the other.
Politics only makes matters worse.

In plain words, you can't expect to get 'that flashy new ipad' for free or very cheap, without serious consequences.

Of course, that's just my opinion ;)
 
What do you mean by free (not fair) trade?


That's the rallying cry for protectionism from big business for big business.
 
Slave Asian labor VS American labor with rights.

There is one big part of it. What's the benefit of a company to pay non-Asian workers to do less volume for more cost? None.

Fucking look at Apple. They did more profit last fiscal year than Exxon Mobile and it's not like they are selling dodgy products. Arguably the best quality and most innovative product in CE ever - made by a step above slave labor. They didn't drop their prices when they switched from Cupertino, CA labor to dirt cheap China labor. I honestly feel so bad for those Chinese workers. Do they have a clue how much or can even comprehend the value of the shit they made compared to their wages?

What would happen to the world if there was some uprising in China and the end result is even a LITTLE work reform and labor laws that would look out for the worker? Maybe some of the German guys could speak on this, but doesn't Germany kind of get it as far as laborers and actually take care of them? IE - Mercedes. Compare the Mercedes workers in Germany to the ones in Georgia or wherever that one is at in the US? That's the problem.

Whatever happened to the stay at home mom or dad? Not possible with the cost of shit and the fact that CEO's are making 1000% more than the made two decades ago and the cost of living increase for everyone else is dick both parents have to work. We wonder why kids are totally fucked up? They are being educated by people on financial aid or food stamps (god love em, my in laws are on food stamps - teachers have a tough ass gig and don't get paid NEARLY enough. What the fuck do most CEO's do? They have like 30 SVP's and directors and shit of every department of their companies so they really aren't the only shot caller. It's ridiculous.
 
Slave labor = low wage (compared to USA) labor?



There is one big part of it. What's the benefit of a company to pay non-Asian workers to do less volume for more cost? None.

Good point. While protectionism might save a few jobs in a particular industry who complains about "unfair" trade when they have to compete against people who can simply produce the same for less, we force the entire country's standard of living down at some big corporation's benefit. Many many more jobs are often lost in OTHER industries who depend on whatever product was protected. The become way less competitive globally of course. Even if there is a small net savings of jobs, the cost has been seen to be astronomical. Imagine costing the country $500k to save a 60K a year job. Well that is the reality.


Fucking look at Apple. They did more profit last fiscal year than Exxon Mobile and it's not like they are selling dodgy products. Arguably the best quality and most innovative product in CE ever - made by a step above slave labor. They didn't drop their prices when they switched from Cupertino, CA labor to dirt cheap China labor.

Ask yourself why should they lower prices. They don't need to. They are outperforming their competition (ie, doing good by the customer). They shouldn't be expected to lower price just because. Also ask yourself what they will do with the added profits. Will they keep it under the mattress? No. Invest it in a 10 year T-bill? No. Or use it for R&D so they can sell everyone a new amazing product, thereby making themselves richer, and the public satisfied in the process.

I honestly feel so bad for those Chinese workers. Do they have a clue how much or can even comprehend the value of the shit they made compared to their wages?

Since the introduction of markets to the Chinese economy, a million people per MONTH have risen out of poverty. Lets be glad about that. Chinese people are taking these jobs for multinational corporation because it is a better alternative than they can get locally.

What would happen to the world if there was some uprising in China and the end result is even a LITTLE work reform and labor laws that would look out for the worker?
Perhaps there wouldn't be as many foreign jobs there.

Maybe some of the German guys could speak on this, but doesn't Germany kind of get it as far as laborers and actually take care of them? IE - Mercedes. Compare the Mercedes workers in Germany to the ones in Georgia or wherever that one is at in the US? That's the problem.

I don't quite understand what you're saying here.


Whatever happened to the stay at home mom or dad? Not possible with the cost of shit and the fact that CEO's are making 1000% more than the made two decades ago and the cost of living increase for everyone else is dick both parents have to work. We wonder why kids are totally fucked up? They are being educated by people on financial aid or food stamps (god love em, my in laws are on food stamps - teachers have a tough ass gig and don't get paid NEARLY enough. What the fuck do most CEO's do? They have like 30 SVP's and directors and shit of every department of their companies so they really aren't the only shot caller. It's ridiculous.

Frankly, CEO's decisions can carry consequences to the tune of billions of dollars. It is difficult for the common man to comprehend this, and easy for him to blame the boogey man business executive. Does it not make sense that when someone's decisions in the office can result in gains or losses of billions, that the company would be quite happy to offer millions of dollars a year to a person they view as best qualified to run said company?
 
Kass - what are you even about? I would like everyone to have the best lives they can. I don't wish doom and gloom to banks and large companies such as Apple, they are essential to a healthy economy. With a little bit of big business, labor, health care, and financial reform, I think there could be benefits to everyone, both company and employee alike. What company are you CEO of since you know so much about gaining/losing billions of dollars? FYI, publicly traded companies have all sorts of board members, shareholders, and management involved into the day to day operation of a company. A CEO is not solely responsible for the gain/loss of a company. Steve Jobs did a great thing with his company Apple. Did he personally revolutionize CE with the iPad, iTunes, iPod, and iPhone? No, it was a team effort through all the stages of product design/development. Maybe that's a bad example because it's HIS brand and HE should net a lot of the profit but look at any company in a similar situation and tell me the thousands of people below the CEO that actually DELIVER on the plan shouldn't have better reward structure in place to help stimulate spending with more pay and benefits? Costco is a great example of a CEO doing it right. He makes a healthy salary considering the companies success, his employees all get healthcare coverage - part timer and full timer, and you can earn $30-40,000 a year running a cash register there. They have minimal turn over every year and their productivity as a company probably increases as the turnover decreases because no one would want to leave a job with all of the benefits of great pay and wonderful benefits so they have happier, more efficient, and better trained staff.
 
All the power to the protesters, but I feel a bit disgusted about the way some people only care about the chinese working condition after they realize that "they took our job!". The very same guys that were gunning down the working class around the globe, calling them "the commie menace", are now tasting a bit of their own capitalist dream.
 
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Ask yourself why should they lower prices. They don't need to. They are outperforming their competition (ie, doing good by the customer). They shouldn't be expected to lower price just because. Also ask yourself what they will do with the added profits. Will they keep it under the mattress? No. Invest it in a 10 year T-bill? No. Or use it for R&D so they can sell everyone a new amazing product, thereby making themselves richer, and the public satisfied in the process.

Yeah all those milions need to go into R&D for them so they can bring us new amazing product like 0.01mm thinner iPhone/iPad or another overpriced Mac. They were innovative once, they are not anymore(for quite long time).
 
Yeah all those milions need to go into R&D for them so they can bring us new amazing product like 0.01mm thinner iPhone/iPad or another overpriced Mac. They were innovative once, they are not anymore(for quite long time).

Basically It doesn't matter what you or I personally think of Mac computers, Ipads, ipods or Iphones. I do not own anything Apple. Owned an ipod once and hated the thing. But, it is largely the public's responsibility to dictate how much and to where resources need to go. You can ask many on this very forum who chose apple over vastly cheaper alternative PCs, and depend on macs for their livelihood. There are millions of people in this country and others who DO happen to care about the next overpriced mac or thinner Iwhatever.


Since you brought it up, Ipad was launched in 2010. Is that quite a long time ago? Now every company and their mom is releasing a tablet using the Ipad as a benchmark, although many tablets failed before the Ipad came along.
 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp-MQhssCqI&feature=autoshare[/ame]

Governments can't fix what they don't control. Goldman Sachs et al rule the world and they quite simply don't give a shit about what happens on the ground.
 
Kass - what are you even about? I would like everyone to have the best lives they can. I don't wish doom and gloom to banks and large companies such as Apple, they are essential to a healthy economy.

Ok. You seem upset that Apple didn't give you a $20 discount on the Ipad or whatever.


With a little bit of big business, labor, health care, and financial reform, I think there could be benefits to everyone, both company and employee alike.
Sounds like a dream. What do you propose?


What company are you CEO of since you know so much about gaining/losing billions of dollars? FYI, publicly traded companies have all sorts of board members, shareholders, and management involved into the day to day operation of a company. A CEO is not solely responsible for the gain/loss of a company. Steve Jobs did a great thing with his company Apple. Did he personally revolutionize CE with the iPad, iTunes, iPod, and iPhone? No, it was a team effort through all the stages of product design/development. Maybe that's a bad example because it's HIS brand and HE should net a lot of the profit but look at any company in a similar situation and tell me the thousands of people below the CEO that actually DELIVER on the plan shouldn't have better reward structure in place to help stimulate spending with more pay and benefits?


You really do not see how a CEO of a company worth $40billion dollars can make or loss the company billions?

Board members and ESPECIALLY shareholders are not involved in day to day. Managers are definitely involved. These top managers are hired and fired by the CEO. Again, it is quite obvious that the CEOs decisions hold a lot of impact. CEOs have run companies into the ground. CEOs have brought companies into great wealth as well. Sometimes a CEO is running a company into the ground, he gets fired and replaced, and the company comes into great success as a result.


You ask if I think low level employees should have better reward structure? Better for whom? Employee or company or general public? You and I may have ideas about what ways a company can get better performance from employee by giving incentives or whatever. However, there are people with their own money and careers at stake, who are in a better position than you and me to decide the pay structures of its employees. If costco decided to go an unusual route, and it is paying off for them, that's great. I have heard of other companies that share ownership and decision equally between all employees. That's great too if it works for them.


My basic point is this: There are people who have a lot more at stake in a company, who are in better positions than you and me to figure out what is best for a company, who are in charge of choosing a CEO and his payscale. These people willingly choose to offer millions to CEOs they think will run their company better. It is along the same lines of an average Joe getting hired for $20/hr because his employer sees in him the ability to earn the company a $50/hr benefit. If the employer thinks that Joe has the ability to earn the company $100million in a year, what do you think they would offer him for his services?
 
Having nothing to due with you fellows outsourcing/economic/poltical/ninja converstion...

I have a family member that works for Apple. She makes boat loads of money. Apple is actually rather generous with their american employees.