O/T: Eddie Vedder's Denver Act Poll

[mentalmeltdown]

"Ask not what your chicken can do for you, but what you can do to eat your chicken" - KFC

 

[Jono]

what I don't get is when people call protesting the war and speaking out agianst it unamerican. And I get tired of people throwing the "men fought and died so we can say things agianst what the government is doing," if we didn't speak agianst the government we wouldn't be where we are today. And people point the treason finger when someone calls Bush out. I didn't vote for him because I thought he was an idiot. Am I supposed to be kissing him now? No one would care about the ridicule agianst him near as much if he wasn't pres. Eddie can do what he wants. It was extreme but I can't believe it shocked anybody, (especially if they listen to the music). You shouldn't protest with hate. Peace doesn't come through hate. It's like killing people to protest abortion. Green Peace is a good example of destructive protest.
and you can't tell me there is no corruption in the government. If you believe it then you are quite sheltered. Unfortunately there's corruption everywhere, in every government. Like holding out on saving lives from torture and death because you want some of the regimes dirty money. But I do have to say that I think this country is great. And I only have to deal with Bush for only four more years at the most. And I don't have to worry about him raping my wife and then killing me. Which is a very good thing.
-Jono-

 

[Jono]

can you guys understand my post? Does it confuse you at all? I had my fiance read it and she says she had a hard time understanding it because of my grammar (whatever that is). I think she's just being stupid but whatever.
-Jono-

 

[Ragamuffin]

And I get tired of people throwing the "men fought and died so we can say things agianst what the government is doing," if we didn't speak agianst the government we wouldn't be where we are today.

Men fought got hurt and died so that we could speak out and get where we are today. And here you are along with every protestor and everyone who's standing up and stating their opinion enjoying what they died for...yet you're tired of hearing about it.

I'm sorry you're tired of hearing about their sacrifices but personally I don't think you're hearing it enough.

 

[TD]

what I don't get is when people call protesting the war and speaking out agianst it unamerican. And I get tired of people throwing the "men fought and died so we can say things agianst what the government is doing," if we didn't speak agianst the government we wouldn't be where we are today. And people point the treason finger when someone calls Bush out. I didn't vote for him because I thought he was an idiot. Am I supposed to be kissing him now? No one would care about the ridicule agianst him near as much if he wasn't pres. Eddie can do what he wants. It was extreme but I can't believe it shocked anybody, (especially if they listen to the music). You shouldn't protest with hate. Peace doesn't come through hate. It's like killing people to protest abortion. Green Peace is a good example of destructive protest.
and you can't tell me there is no corruption in the government. If you believe it then you are quite sheltered. Unfortunately there's corruption everywhere, in every government. Like holding out on saving lives from torture and death because you want some of the regimes dirty money. But I do have to say that I think this country is great. And I only have to deal with Bush for only four more years at the most. And I don't have to worry about him raping my wife and then killing me. Which is a very good thing.
-Jono-

EXACTLY! I float around on this issue though, because I have no sympathy for protesters getting arrested. If they are in public streets, interfering w/ commerce and safety - throw 'em in jail. Also, I don't give two shits what Eddie Vedder, Serj, or Morello have to say. I don't agree with them half the time, and I think they are clowns, but if they talk shit at their shows - LET 'EM. I don't go to the shows = so it doesn't bother me. My other biggest gripe is all this empty patriotism. Calling a protester Unamerican doesn't make you a Patriot. Putting a flag on your car, doesn't make you a patriot. If you want to do something good for America do something good. Start a car pool at your work. Volunteer to clean a local park. Volunteer to coach a church softball team, etc, etc.

 

[jdelpi]

I think people call the antiwar protesters un-American because, by and large, many of them ARE anti-American. Last night my friend Graham (who only now is starting to agree that going to war was the right thing) and I were talking with his friend Claire (who opposes the war), and he said to her what I just said and she basically agreed.

Of course, as Oliver Wendell Holmes once said, "no generalization is worth a damn." I certainly wouldn't call John Kerry or other veterans opposed to the war unAmerican even though I disagree with him.

I too opposed the idea of going into Iraq for a long time. I eventually changed my side when I saw the pro-war side had an answer for every objection I had.

Also, people who were still marching after the war began were basically advocating coalition surrender and Hussein victory.

 

[Ragamuffin]

My other biggest gripe is all this empty patriotism. Calling a protester Unamerican doesn't make you a Patriot. Putting a flag on your car, doesn't make you a patriot. If you want to do something good for America do something good. Start a car pool at your work. Volunteer to clean a local park. Volunteer to coach a church softball team, etc, etc.

Why does the patriotism have to be empty? Everyone can't make time to volunteer 20 hours a week. That's why there's not 1000+ people at the pro troops/pro bush rallys. Most of the people (the vast majority) who support it all have jobs, jobs that they can't take off Wednesday to go lay in the street all morning and prove no point so they take the flag that the protestors burn and raise it high. Most people who work 40+ hour weeks also have kids and are tired on Saturday, there are more important things for them to do than go stand around waving the flag (which is probably already on the front of their house) to show that the majority of the country stands behind the President and his decision.

 

[Jono]

1)my point was , ragamuffin, that long ago people spoke out and fought agianst the government and that is why we are here today. If we stopped speaking out agianst the bad thigs then any asshole can take advantage of the people he leads. I'm not forgetting the men who have fought and died. Don't ever say that I have please.


2)like I said there are hateful protesters and peaceful ones. I know the difference.
-Jono-

 

[Jono]

I'm also for the war. I never said I wasn't in my post and I never said I was out protesting it. also the asshole protesters are pissing me off because people notice bad more than good.
-Jono-

 

[mentalmeltdown]

Anti-war protesters usually use war-like means (throwing stones, vandalizing stores, burning flags) to get their point across which is kinda ironic.
I caught a snippet of TV News yesterday where a peace protester is yelling stupidites in Baghdad, near the now-famous journalists' hotel, at a GI standing near by and he answered cold-bloodedly, "Where were you on 9/11?"... I guess that my point is that these peace protesters always seem to find way to support causes that are in some way related to the US external politics, and thus, making other important peace issues look small and not attention-worthy... For example, just 2 days ago I believe, there was a huge massacre in Africa where around 1000 people were butchered in one night - you'd think that the leftwing tree-huggers would be all over this right? Wrong. They preferred denigrating US war efforts and crying about the collateral damage of some 20-30 civilians killed in Iraq.

Oh, and in case it doesn't show in my post, I'm pro-war.

 

[TD]

Why does the patriotism have to be empty? Everyone can't make time to volunteer 20 hours a week. That's why there's not 1000+ people at the pro troops/pro bush rallys. Most of the people (the vast majority) who support it all have jobs, jobs that they can't take off Wednesday to go lay in the street all morning and prove no point so they take the flag that the protestors burn and raise it high. Most people who work 40+ hour weeks also have kids and are tired on Saturday, there are more important things for them to do than go stand around waving the flag (which is probably already on the front of their house) to show that the majority of the country stands behind the President and his decision.

AAAhhhh, I see, if you work 40 hrs a week you can't do anything to help the country in your free time. Volunteering to make America better just isn't cool in our me, me, me society. Heaven forbid you think of ways to help your country within your work place. Creativity must have went out with volunteerism.

 

[jdelpi]

Yep, those were the principles this nation was founded on: life, liberty, and servitude.

 

[TD]

America's greatness is due to the sacrifices of our founders. Nobody is willing to sacrifice 2 seconds of their time any more. We're a fat, lazy, pampered country. After 09/11 Dubya enouraged us to help fight terrorism by shopping. That's how bad it's gotten. Just shop and everything will take care of itself. It's sad.

 

[jdelpi]

Depends on your definition of "sacrifice." The Founders were fighting for what they thought was a worthy cause to better their lives. They would have rather "died on their feet than lived on their knees," if you will. They were not potentially giving up their lives to achieve something of lesser value.

 

[Cincy Vigilante]

I do something good for America every day. I get out of bed and go to one of the four jobs I have and work eighty hours a week. Thats it, thats all I got, that and I raise my kids. Just because I dont do one of those charity things doesn't mean I don't do my part. I'm one small vertebra in the backbone of the USA.

 

[mentalmeltdown]

Look at the Iraqis or Palestinians sacrificing themselves for what they believe is a higher purpose and of the highest value - to die as a martyr for Allah... It's all a matter of cultural values and sets of beliefs. At least you guys in US can express your patriotism and your opinions on the war more or less freely... here in Canada, and particularly Quebec, if you wave the US flag in support for the war you guys are fronting, people will boo you and even worse, if you have the US flag in your car, the car'll get keyed!

 

[mrthrax]

in regards to suicide bombers if they really wanted to go down as heroes why dont they just kill themselves that would send more of a message to the un...where as by killing othger people in the process it is terrorism!

as far as doing things for your country,if everyone just got off there asses and got a job things would run a whole lot smoother,1 charity i always support is the salvation army because the money u give them actually fucking gets to the people that need it.

 

[Ron MOSH Earl]

I help the poor every day. I pay taxes.

 

[ThraxDude]

I help the poor every day. I pay taxes.

Good fucking point!!

 

[Riehlthing]

I help the poor every day. I pay taxes.

Work harder, millions on welfare depend on you.