off topic - T3 review (spoiler free)

[Yngvai X]

a friend of mine, Jeremy Krull, wrote this. I thought it was pretty funny. And I do agree with a lot of what he says:

Title: OUT OF THE ASHES OF OUR WORLD, THE GARBAGE WILL RISE.

This movie was simply disgustingly (like oily fingers after fried chicken) terrible. Absolutely terrible. I love Terminator, T2 is one of my favorite movies of all time. I had to sit in that theater with my head in my hands while people laughed at the ridiculously stupid and unnecessary Hollywood popcorn lines that instead of enforcing and affirming the traditional and correct forboding and dark atmosphere of the Terminator. THIS MOVIE IS GARBAGE. I'm not just saying that because I am biased by the first two films, but even as a stand alone film, this movie sucks. NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SHOULD ACCEPT THIS AS AN EXTENSION OF THE TERMINATOR STORY.

Shout outs:

Jonathan Mostow: Needs to be slapped. Again, and again. And again, and again. And oh yes, again. Until his head is hanging from his body by a thread, so then we get to see a badly CGI'd version of him magically reattaching his swolen "think I'm the shit and I can do better than Cameron" head with seemingly no problem at all.

Marco Beltrami: Needs to be killed. Killed multiple times over, by means of rats and razorblades. Congratulations on succesfully destroying the mood and power that Terminator once had. You are over indulgent, you failed, you tried to reinvent the wheel, you sucked. Terminator is about machines, not full orchestra. I hate you.

Mario Kassar and Andrew Vajna: What the hell were you guys thinking?

Arnold Schwarzenegger: Dude at least you still have a shot at being the most muscular governor of a state in history. TALK TO THE HAND.

For those who disagree or take offense to anything I have said, know this: All that I have said is my own oppinion and basically means nothing in the grand scheme of things, so no hard feelings.

 

[The Yngster]

I'm gonna see it tomorrow, but I know its gonna suck, I dont care though. The story seems wierd, the new terminator doesn't look like she would harm anything and doesnt fit the part imo, and Arnold's like 65 years old. But hey, I'm hoping for at least a few decent action scenes, and a lot of explosions.

 

[SilentRealm]

i was really lookin forward to it too..

 

[Yngvai X]

Just to throw in my own 2 cents, I didn't outright hate the movie like my friend did, but I was pretty dissapointed. Its a decent action flick, but I refuse to acknowlage it as the next chapter in the Terminator series.

 

[neuro]

Wow.. well that's a real kick in the teeth.

I was hoping for at least a pseudo-OK sequel to T2.

Oh well.

 

[The Yngster]

Better than the other two? Hmmm, this gives me hope, what did you like better about it? I'm seein it tonight.

 

[Dream Symphony]

I actually liked it. There were a lot of jokes in it. But it was still good. I expect to see a fourth movie. I thought the very first models of the Terminators in the movie were pretty cool.

 

[Manga-San]

[Some Spoilers...]

I'd say it's about as good as the original, but not near as good as T2...

The jokes were just fucking stupid. The rehash of the bar scene where Arnold got his clothes SUCKED, and all of the little one-liners like the previously mentioned "talk to the hand" were fucking retarded...

HOWEVER, I thought it continued the story quite nicely, and filled in all of the gaps that the first two didn't show, like how the machines achieved all of the technology without human assistance and such...

I don't think there will be another movie, because the entire story has been told. We already know that John Conner is going to wait out the Nuclear Winter then rescue the survivors from work camps and lead a resistance against the machines. We don't need another movie for that.

I would like to see a few books that tell the entire story, and maybe a few side stories, like a resistance soldier side story...

That would be badass...

All in all, I give the movie an 8.5/10...

 

[The Yngster]

Ahhh Manga mark spoilers! Even the small ones, I like going into movies not knowing anything about what happens

 

[scanner313]

Well, I'm gathering from that last post that there ends up being a nuclear war launched by the machines after all, which would have to be, because if there wasn't then the Terminator (Arnold's terminator) in T2 should have disappeared the minute the other one was destroyed, and Sarah should have been back in her old life before ever meeting Reese in the first movie. Because Reese wouldn't have ever come back through time if there wasn't a nuclear war. So, if that is in fact what is implied or happens in the new movie, at least they thought about that and took it into account.

I just hope the story makes sense and they didn't just make this movie as another stupid action flick with no regard for the physical impossibilities they often portray in such films.

 

[The Yngster]

I hope the movie makes more sense then what you just wrote

 

[Manga-San]

Ack...sorry...

*Hits self...*

 

[Axegrynder]

i think T3 was a great movie, the writers did their job well. for those who havent seen it, dont pay any attention to that review. it was hard getting used to another guy playing john connor though, but the Terminatrix was HOT and did a great job of playing a killing machine (she can terminate me anytime).

Remember that the director really had his hands full. Following up a movie like T2 is a major challenge, and i think he did a really good job even though you could tell it wasnt a James Cameron movie. Plus you have alot of people who decide its gonna suck before they even see it.

weaknesses:
i do agree when it comes to the music, thats what stuck out the most to me, i think his name was Brad Fiedel or something who did the music for T2, they should have gotten him for T3, cause some of the mood and tension was lost in T3 since the music didnt quite fit, and how could they not use the famous Terminator theme during the movie??

I also agree that they put a few too many cheesy one-liners in there, they didnt work the way they did in T2. another than those 2 things, it was a great movie.

*SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*
As far as the story being wrapped up, i think they HAVE to make a T4 with the way it ended, and from what i hear T4 is already underway. for one thing, they have the chance to re-introduce Reese in T4 and explore his character more, 2nd Arnold says in T3 that John's kids would play an important role, so they are another target for terminators, and 3rd in the future John is assasinated by a T101 that looks like Arnold because of his boy-hood attachment to the one in T2. so right there are many possibilities for a T4
*SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*

 

[Yngvai X]

I thought the Terminatrix sucked. I dont care if she's hot. I dont want a hot terminator, I want a badass that looks like it can fuck shit up. Im not going to feel threatened by a terminator that looks like a supermodel. If they wanted a female terminator, she should have been like Sara Connor was in T2. She looked more like a terminator than the TX did. The plot of T4 should be: a James Cameron terminator is sent back in time to kill everyone that was resonsible for making T3.

And (SPOILER, DONT READ IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW)












Im pissed off at the half assed explination as to why skynet still exists. Its just like....its there. Theres no other reason given other than its just there. I feel like there should have been a dialogue in the movie between John and the terminator that went like this:
"but we destroyed skynet!"
"no you didnt, its still there."
"how, we elimiated all the technology that led up to it?"
"shut up, its just there ok? we couldn't come up with a reason because of sloppy writting so its just still THERE ok? Just go with us on this."

And another example of sloppy writing. The Terminator 3D movie at Universal studios, which was directed *by* Cameron, and starred Arnold, Linda Hamilton and Eddie Furlong actually SHOWS skynet as a physical machine. Yet in T3 they say its just software.










(end spoiler)

 

[Yngvai X]

Well, I'm gathering from that last post that there ends up being a nuclear war launched by the machines after all, which would have to be, because if there wasn't then the Terminator (Arnold's terminator) in T2 should have disappeared the minute the other one was destroyed, and Sarah should have been back in her old life before ever meeting Reese in the first movie. Because Reese wouldn't have ever come back through time if there wasn't a nuclear war. So, if that is in fact what is implied or happens in the new movie, at least they thought about that and took it into account.

I just hope the story makes sense and they didn't just make this movie as another stupid action flick with no regard for the physical impossibilities they often portray in such films.

The Terminator series is full of time paradox's, all of them, and T3 didn't "resolve them." The point starts way back in the first terminator: You CANT send a guy back in time to father someone whos already there in the future. Thats a loop. The only explination for how shit works in the terminator movies is that they live in some parallel universe where time is not linear. Where all points in time happen simultaneously yet at different points chronologically. So there you go

 

[Axegrynder]

The Terminator series is full of time paradox's, all of them, and T3 didn't "resolve them." The point starts way back in the first terminator: You CANT send a guy back in time to father someone whos already there in the future. Thats a loop. The only explination for how shit works in the terminator movies is that they live in some parallel universe where time is not linear. Where all points in time happen simultaneously yet at different points chronologically. So there you go

well it's impossible to travel back in time AT ALL so there's no use nitpicking on whether or not it's possible for john to be born before his father. and you're right about the explanation on how everything works in the terminator movies, and that answers your question on how skynet exists even though they destroyed the chip, the hand, and all the research. there was never a reality where they DIDN'T destroy all those things, if that had worked, then skynet wouldnt exist, noone would have traveled back in time, they wouldnt have had to destroy that stuff in the first place blah blah blah. time is just a big loop in these movies, where the future has to take place before the past. the major theme is that you cant change your destiny. even when you consciously try to change it, you really arent changing it because everything you do and will do has already been determined for you.

 

[Yngvai X]

the major theme is that you cant change your destiny. even when you consciously try to change it, you really arent changing it because everything you do and will do has already been determined for you.

See, thats NOT what the major theme used to be. In T2 Cameron's specific message was "no fate but what we make for ourselves." I have the extreme DVD and on the audio commentary he stresses again and again the theme of T2 is that our future is not set in stone and we control our own fate. But of course in T3 Mostow just threw all that right out the window.

 

[Yngvai X]

*****huge spoiler*******



because it gave you the illusion that you erent contorlled by fate so you can tear down the walls, and start the process over again but more comlex(like updating softwear). so there is fate and the software uses humans to become more advanced: t800 t1000 and now the girl. its evolution. because the terminator was only a machine who is supposed to have no desire but it somehow has a desire to reach its goal not matter what. thats why he couldnt kill john and fail his goal in life. because he has desire just like humans. machines are the next step in evolution. the circle of life. same theory goes for the matrix. i hope this made sense. so its not just an action movie, but its also very comlex as well.

Nowhere does Cameron mention that the message given in T2 was meant as an "illusion." He wanted the series to end with T2. I don't know if you guys are aware of this but there was aditional footage to the end of T2 that was shot...its of Sara and John Connor, still alive and well "way past the Judgement day date" tho he didnt give a specific date, to show that they did in fact stop judgement day. This was Cameron's - the creator, writer, and director of the first two Terminators - intentions. He says in the commentary that he didnt use the footage because of the "awkwardness of seeing Sara Connor aged (to about her 60s) at the end of the film." So there you have it, Mostow basically pissed on Cameron's creation with T3, just like they did to Aliens with Alien 3 (killing off all the remaining characters Cameron created, etc). T1 and T2 were more than action movies. T3 wasn't.

 

[Yngvai X]

If they stopped judgement day no machines would be sent back, and Kyle Reese wouldnt have been sent back either so john wouldnt have been born. be realistic pal. they needed T3 to finally make sense of the nonsense. ....think about it.

At the same time, if the future couldn't be changed then WHY would Skynet be sending terminators back in time to kill John Connor (and obversely, why does John send Reese/T-800 back in time to protect himself and Sara)? The TX is shown *successfully killing* two of John's "future luitennents." Obviously the TX is coming from a *possible* future where these luitennents existed as John's soldiers. She *kills them* they are successfully erased from the future. you can't dispute that somehow these people come back cause *they died*. The TX's actions proove that you *can* alter the past and change the future. Unless you're going to try to argue that certain things (such as the existence of the luitennents) can be changed and others can't (Judgement day). Further proof that T3 was a victim of sloppy writing. Just to note, there was one thing unresolved in T2 which could possibly result in only a delayed judgement day, which, if T3 HAD used this, I would have bought it. The T-800 loses an arm in the gears at the steel mill, and they don't retrive it. If in T3 they got the technology for Skynet by finding this arm, that would be very plausible, since it was the same technology that Dyson was basing his research off of. But no, we just get a simple "its just there" explination. More sloppy writing.

As far as I can tell, the way time works in terminator is not like the way it worked in back to the future, Reese wouldn't have dissapeared if Judgement Day was stopped. Heres an example of what I mean. Theres a theory that for every descision made, an alternate dimension, or reality, exists where a different descision was made, and the world is changed because of it. Lets say, Judgement Day occurs in one future, but in another, due to other circumstances, it does not occur. Reese and the terminators are being sent back to a reality where the possible paths to the future have not been mapped out yet. They now exist in THIS reality, and not the future, since they have left the future. Therefore, even if events happen to change the future, they would not "magically" dissapear, since they have left their future reality for good and now exist in the reality of the past, before the circumstances to create the future they were from were made.

And telling me to "be realistic" about this is irrelevant since we're talking about a movie about time traveling killer cyborgs .

 

[Yngvai X]

Im not saying the future is writen in stone, but since John didnt disappear like logic would tell us then judgement day still happend since his father was from the future. None of this other dimension bull. There would have never been anything sent back at all. There would be no movie. So T3 does make sense of it all. thank you very much.

Dude, you can't use logic to decide what the results of time travel could be since afaik theres currently no way to travel back in time. Im sure some physicist could come up with some sort of theory, but even then, you can't say "logically this would happen" because no one knows, its speculation. I'm going by the speculation that, in the terminator universe, time exists in layers, and its not linear. I see where you're coming from, but based on what we know about how the terminator universe works, it doesn't fit, because how could Reese have been sent back in time to father the person that sent him back? Time cannot function in a linear fashion in such a universe, it must exist as layers of possible realities (which, btw, is not some bullshit thing Im coming up with, scientists have theorized that this is one possible way time can occur). In the Back to the Future movies, yes, time is linear, and your theory works then.

Anyway I'm done with this argument. I still stand by the fact that there are numerous plot holes in T3 (the biggest one, which doesnt have anything to do with the whole time travel thing, is that John says he was 13 when the events in T2 occured, yet in T2 you see his age was 10) and that the movie contradicts itself when it says the future cannot be changed yet the TX successfully changes the future anyway. As far as the time travel thing goes, I have my speculation, you have yours, and its pretty apparent neither of us are gonna change each others minds .