OMG NERD POLL!

[IronGuillotine]

Let's not get upset. Breathe, Mike, breathe. Now look. Let me just stress that when I talk about people bragging on the Wii controller, I'm talking about those that went to the conference that had never played the Wii before. Now, yes, this all has already been addressed by IronGuillotine, but I would like to do it in a different manner. Now, as he said, surround sound and online features are available for the Wii. People will be downloading content for their DS, and beyond that, people will be downloading a large back catalogue for NES, SNES, Nintendo 64, Genesis, and TurboGrafx-16. But both Microsoft and Sony want to do something entirely different than what Nintendo is doing. They have their eyes set on pretty much making it compatible with every electronic device in your life...well, basically, they are making PCs. When you're able to be paid for playing Halo and poop in the system, then you'll never have to leave your XBox. It's not a terrible goal, really, but it's completely different from Nintendo's goal. Nintendo's draw is still solely games, whereas the 360 can be a center in your home for ALL of your entertainment needs.

Very good post.

 

[IronGuillotine]

lom, this guys an idiot, just trying to show him how stupid some of the shit he is saying is.

Noone is an idiot here. And again, there is no need for name calling. You're obviously the only one upset here and you're taking the conversation to a offensive level. It doesn't need to go there.

 

[IronGuillotine]

Oh, and I also just wanted to say that the Wii controller isn't completely new. However, what they are doing with it is new. They are making it the primary controller. That's what makes it innovative. So using that as a point against XBox having nothing innovative about it is a weak argument.

Really? If there is someone that has mad a motion control system similar to what Nintendo is using for the Wii then I'd very much like to know about it.

 

[Karmic]

All of the PS systems have been extremely buggy, and the PS3 is going to be even buggier because they're cutting corners to meet they're release date.

please elaborate on the buggy part there, am I missing out on something?

(compatibility with the DS is gonna win hard...)

as with the psp and ps3!

 

[IronGuillotine]

You told me that the games i enjoy playing were boring as hell, it wasnt like you stated "im not into those kinda games" or something pleasnt, so fuck off.

That comment was not a personal attack on you or your opinion, so please try to calm yourself. Your frustration is not helping anything.

So what if I find those games "boring as hell" and so what if I find it surprising that you feel the opposite. So what? How is that an attack on you?

Incase you didnt notice, but most games out there today are multiplatformed, and there are tones of games for the xbox spanning across all genres, if theres nothing that you like on the xbox... then what the fuck do you actually play? I can GUARENTEE there are games for you on there.

What does multiplatforming have to do with anything? We're talking about the individual systems and how their individual differences.

I know that there are games on the XBox I like, I used to have one. As far as which systems I like to play... well I play everything I can get my hands on really, but my personal preference has always been the classic systems like NES and Genesis. I also play a lot of Computer games and GameCube. I like games on ALL systems...even Jaguar, Saturn, & 3D0....it's just that I find Nintendo games to be a lot funner.

WTF? are you retarted? i used one example, all the hitman games are the same.. but theres no other game out there like it except maybe Tenchu, all the mario games are the same, but i enjoy playing the one on SNES better than NES, im sure all the new capabilities that the SNES brought to it made it more enjoyable for me... just like the new capabilities of games that are now on the next gen consoles. In other words, prettier, faster, more intensive with graphics, physics, sound, and overall GAMEPLAY.

I see your point. We're just looking at it in a different way, that's all...

Faster systems with more memory, and the like, do indeed give the developers better tools to make better games with better physics systems and so on. I'm not denying that, and never have. However, things graphics and sound play very little into that. What they do do is help to make the game more immersive and enjoyable. ...also good things, but it's not the same thing as advancing game architecture or game design possibilities. It's something completely different.

My point was that with things like new control system, the system is giving the developers resources to make completely new types of games because they are completely new tools (not just faster and prettier). That is were innovation comes in to play.

Then your really missing the point, im saying XBOX rules and your saying Microsoft doesnt make games

I understand your point, but you do not understand mine. And, unfortunately, you never will until you understand the differences between architecture, design, immersion, and gameplay. They are all very different things. Making a really fast and pretty console does not effect all of these things, but they are all important. Microsoft is ignoring some of the things that make great games because they either know that the public majority is oblivious to this, or because they do not fully understand the concepts themselves, which is why I brought up their game making experience. Thankfully we have some really great 3rd party game developers out there that find ways to make the system work anyway.

i didnt say they invented HD moron, but they are the first ones to bring HD to the motherfucking console I like how you say never ever invented a new type on control system, i have no idea what your trying to say here.. new console? new controller? is this some way of boasting about the wii's controller? yeah, because remote controls havent been around for decades.

I know that you didn't say that Microsoft invented HD. I didn't imply otherwise. If you're excited about it being HD, then great. Good for you. ...but you are among the few who will actually use that. Developers are not going to create new and innovative types of games that rely on HD. For one, that's virtually impossible to do based solely on improved graphics, and secondly, it's not available to everyone. In fact, it's only available to very, very few people.

The control system is a PART of the console, so it is just as important. The reason I brought it up though is because it's a good example of how Nintendo looks at the game making process in a very different way than it's competitors. That paradigm shift effects how they make their systems. And, btw, Nintendo's new control system is bad ass! It's not a remote control. In fact, it's VERY far from it. I strongly suggest reading up on it a bit. I'm sure you'll find it very interesting.

hey dumb ass, incase you didnt realize, this thread, and everything we've been talking about has been about consoles, kthnx. sure online consoles started with the Dreamcast, but there is just so much more now with the 360 and XBL without even touching the Live Anywhere concept that they came up with.

That's fine and true, but we were talking about innovation there. Faster systems with improved features is a good thing, but those things are not revolutionary or innovative. They are impressive, don't get me wrong, but system developers have been taking those same measures since the dawning of the console wars.

embarrassing starts with an e. again, consoles bro, CONSOLES, not games, not pc games, nothing else. MS is the new commer, and IMO they are better in every way imaginable than Nintendo, all Nintendo has now is their loyal fans and creativity. Its not like any of these companies are going to force the other one out of business, but I just feel as if MS is the stronger company, even in the console world.

Is this a spelling contest or a debate? And, btw, your spelling is just as atrocious. I just don't stoop so low as to pointing out your spelling errors because it has NOTHING to do with what we're talking about. Nothing.

The PC is a gaming playform like anything else, so it's just as valid in this discussion. Moreover, Microsoft's experience in making games MAKES it important. I'm glad that Microsoft has joined the console wars because it gives us a another very stong company, that makes extremely powerful hardware, and gives gamers something else to choose from. In fact, I'll probably even get their new system. ...but I do not think that one system "crushes" any of the others. It's all in how you look at it. Everyone looks for different things in games, and the different systems offer those options.

come again? hmm, i see what you did there with the painters... well, if i cant paint for shit, and i have new and innovative stuff, does that mean that i can come up with something more beautiful than Rembrant? odds are... NO FUCKING WAY. MS is just creating a platform for the developers to work on, and in comparison to the other platforms, MS's is much better.

Obviously you didn't understand the analogy. The painters themselves never changed in the analogy, so we're not comparing some amateur's work to the work of Rembrant's. That would be ridiculous. The point of the analogy is that better quality equipment can only take you so far, but having NEW KINDS of equipment, of similar quality, can give you something much greater to work with when you're striving for something new and different.

Its also a fad. kids these days. I cant dissagree with you here, but when you dont have all the shiny graphics and physics to work with, all you have left is gameplay. But now if MS bought the lisenceing for the Nintendo games to go on the 360 and they decided to make their own stupid ass controller, would you sudenly hail the 360? no you wouldnt, because your just another nintendo fanboy

Well, I'd wait it out and see what they did with it. If that took Nintendo out of the equation then yes I'd hail MS, because it would be the best one out there. However, that is a very unlikely scenerio and I hope it never does happen. Competition is good. Nintendo is good. Microsoft is good. Sony is good. They are all very different and all have something to offer gammers.

look, we seem to be on 2 different plains here. so how about you just leave it at that, trust me, your cant convince me with ANYTHING you have to say.

If you don't want to talk about this anymore, then that's your choice. Personally I'm having fun talking about this stuff. BTW - I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

 

[IronGuillotine]

please elaborate on the buggy part there, am I missing out on something?

That would take forever. You'd have to understand a bit of programming and electrical engineering, especially as it pertains to games, to really understand my meaning there. One simple and obvious example would be the natorious "hall of mirrors" error, though. Sony is known in the gaming industry for creating buggy systems that unfortunately become apparent in their games quite often. If you don't notice the errors then cool. That's a good thing. Just keep having fun with Sony and just ignore what I wrote. For people like me that have been playing games since the days of Telico, Commodore, Tandy, and the first Apple systems...and that actually have some experience in making games, then it is virtually impossible to ignore the bugs. It's quite possible that you see it very differently based on your perspective and experience. To me however, it is frustrating and sucks the enjoyment right out of the experience to notice artifacts, kludges, and glitches while I'm trying to play.

 

[Karmic]

uh.... so bugs in a game belong to the console? No. fault lies in the game developer there. I have yet to find a "bug" from my ps2. although in the games, there's always some.

Theres a nice and large difference between Sony and third party developers.

Theres not much electrical engineering I'd have to know to at least understand that.

 

[Karmic]

and mike, give it up already. RIP 360. =)

 

[IronGuillotine]

uh.... so bugs in a game belong to the console? No. fault lies in the game developer there. I have yet to find a "bug" from my ps2. although in the games, there's always some.

Theres a nice and large difference between Sony and third party developers.

Theres not much electrical engineering I'd have to know to at least understand that.

Bugs can come from the hardware or software levels. In terms of hardware, it'd be more specific to say that errors can come from how the hardware communicates with the software, and vice versa. Software exsists in both high level and low level. High level software is what the developers create to make games. Low level software is what the system developer creates specificly for the system. It's the software that communicates directly with the hardware. This is where electrical engineering comes into play.

Systems have their own programming languages, which is specific to the console and is created by the system developer (in this case Sony). The developers create their games within this layer of software. The programming language / compiler is low level, while the software they make with it is high level. If the system or the low level software is buggy, then the games made with them are doomed to be buggy as well.

Yes, if a programmer creates buggy software, then the game will obviously have errors. However, if a good programmer's tools are buggy by themselves, then he is forced to either compromise by taking another anvenue, or be left with a buggy result.

Did I explain that clearly?

 

[Karmic]

so you mean to say that you have their developer tools, and can firmly state that you have examined them to find them buggy?

if not, it just sounds like you're looking for something to blame for a badly produced game.

 

[IronGuillotine]

so you mean to say that you have their developer tools, and can firmly state that you have examined them to find them buggy?

if not, it just sounds like you're looking for something to blame for a badly produced game.

You don't need the tools in your possession to know that they are buggy. Look at the games that are available on all three systems and really compare them. See for yourself which gaming system consistently has more bugs. If the game developers and game stays the same, but there are obviously more bugs on one of the 3 major systems, then what else is someone suppose to believe? Also, you could read articles about the construction of the systems. Read developer reviews on the systems. Talk to people in the field. The bottom line is that there are plenty of other ways to get this information.

I'm not going to say something unless I firmly believe it to be true, and have reason to hold that belief. I have read up on how to develope games for the GameCube, PS2, XBox, and GameBoy Advance, because that happens to be one of my many interests. I was considering for a very long time about game programming as a profession. In my research I came across many resources that go into specifics of both the hardware specs and their programming languages. In this endeavor I have also spoken with individuals who have actually programmed on some of these systems, including Playstation and Playstation 2.

I think that that is a pretty damn good basis to form a relatively reasonable conclusion about this. Head over to GameDev.net, IDGA.org, FlipCode.com, or some other game developement forum and ask around if you still don't believe me. Also, take a look at what some of the system developers themselves have said in interviews. It's pretty obvious that they cut a lot of corners in order to get the system in time for the holidays. It's also obvious that of the 3 main competitors, Sony's systems are the buggiest.

 

[Mike]

IronGuillotine
This message is hidden because IronGuillotine is on your ignore list.


lol, man that guy was annoying

 

[Mike]

karmic, im giving up on that guy, he stopped making sense after his first post, hes bring up different topics that i may or may not agree with, problem is, they have nothing to do with what i was talking about.

Wii = not impressive
PS3 = more impressive than 360, just has some gay features to it
360 = fun

btw, thats my oppinion, if you dont agree, i dont care, but dont fight me to say otherwise.

 

[Karmic]

You don't need the tools in your possession to know that they are buggy. Look at the games that are available on all three systems and really compare them. See for yourself which gaming system consistently has more bugs. If the game developers and game stays the same, but there are obviously more bugs on one of the 3 major systems, then what else is someone suppose to believe? Also, you could read articles about the construction of the systems. Read developer reviews on the systems. Talk to people in the field. The bottom line is that there are plenty of other ways to get this information.

I'm not going to say something unless I firmly believe it to be true, and have reason to hold that belief. I have read up on how to develope games for the GameCube, PS2, XBox, and GameBoy Advance, because that happens to be one of my many interests. I was considering for a very long time about game programming as a profession. In my research I came across many resources that go into specifics of both the hardware specs and their programming languages. In this endeavor I have also spoken with individuals who have actually programmed on some of these systems, including Playstation and Playstation 2.

I think that that is a pretty damn good basis to form a relatively reasonable conclusion about this. Head over to GameDev.net, IDGA.org, FlipCode.com, or some other game developement forum and ask around if you still don't believe me. Also, take a look at what some of the system developers themselves have said in interviews. It's pfretty obvious that they cut a lot of corners in order to get the system in time for the holidays. It's also obvious that of the 3 main competitors, Sony's systems are the buggiest.

so basically what you're saying is that you don't need the marble to know it has scratches.

Look at the three systems? What about them? Most game developers ALL make sure the games don't have bugs, since thats the worst thing that can happen. Out of the many games I've played, I haven't experienced much bugs in it. And, about the console itself having bugs, I really haven't had much problems with the introduction part of the PS2. There really isnt much that can go wrong.

Obvious on cutting corners? Eh, all consoles/companies have done that, but if anything, they make sure NOT to make it visible. Now please, before speculating some more without actually showing anything, actually show something that backs up your conclusions.

How hard it is to develop games isn't relevant, since its the final product that counts.

 

[IronGuillotine]

If you see a picture of the marble, it is just as easy to see the stratches.

Like I said before, if you can't see it's faults, then good for you. Just have fun playing buggy games and not knowing any better. There's nothing wrong with that. If you really do want to see them, then do some research and find out for yourself. I'm not going to do it for you. I've already been through all that, and it was a lot of work. I have no need or desire to do so again. Plus, as I said before, they may not even be noticable to anyone but really hardcore gamers, and developers / programmers, and it would take an eternity to explain the subtleties.

 

[Karmic]

Oh please. Give at least one example where the bug in a game is a direct result of the console, and not negligence of the game developer.

I HAVE played games with bugs, but it's not the console. The console brings the limitations, the game shows the best compromise around it. Once again you fail to back your argument up with actual proof.

 

[Super Mahrio]

Oh...Em..Gee...
you guys, seriously...id expect this kind of nonsense from a gaming forum but HERE?

 

[Captain Beard]

It's my sex box and her name is Sony. I dunno, consoles.... they're for faggy gamers like Reuben. *cough*WoWblows*cough*

 

[Chromatose]

It's my sex box and her name is Sony. I dunno, consoles.... they're for faggy gamers like Reuben. *cough*WoWblows*cough*

lol sorny.

lol WoW is PC.

edit: and Mac, just saying PC isn't PC, gotta give props to those jewapples.

 

[Captain Beard]

I know. And it's sooooo gay anyway.