Open letter to John Bush

[SeaStorm]

You are talking about the "majority of metal fans" and what Anthrax songs they would know. So you're limiting yourself to tours where most of the fans are NOT there mainly as Anthrax fans. In that case, I agree. They would never do a Joey/John tour as part of a Big 4 tour, or a Clash of the Titans Part 2 tour, or some other tour that has the "majority of metal fans" present.

But down the road, when we are talking about tours where Anthrax is the only draw - and the audience is limited to Anthrax fans - I think a Joey/John tour would do just fine in that scenario. Something for all the fans. And I think Joey would do it (no idea if John would).

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

You are talking about the "majority of metal fans" and what Anthrax songs they would know. So you're limiting yourself to tours where most of the fans are NOT there mainly as Anthrax fans. In that case, I agree. They would never do a Joey/John tour as part of a Big 4 tour, or a Clash of the Titans Part 2 tour, or some other tour that has the "majority of metal fans" present.

But down the road, when we are talking about tours where Anthrax is the only draw - and the audience is limited to Anthrax fans - I think a Joey/John tour would do just fine in that scenario. Something for all the fans. And I think Joey would do it (no idea if John would).

If Anthrax is the only Draw there still wouldn't be much of a Draw for John Bush era Anthrax.

Even when John Bush was the main vocalist the venues were half full at times. The Joey reunion was huge. Most of the tour dates were sold out. Some major cities had to have back to back nights as there was such a demand.

I am honestly not trying to be a dick. But even at a John Bush Anthrax show how many of the fans there were actually there just to see the John Bush songs? I know when I went to the john bush era shows still a majority of the audience wanted to hear the joey era stuff. Thats not a knock against John Bush it is just what the fans wanted to hear no matter who was singing them.

Other than Room for One More, Only, Safe Home there are not many songs in the John Bush catalog that are signature songs. If I am missing any please let me know.

Indians, Madhouse, Got The Time, Caught In a Mosh, Anti Social, Be All End All, I'm The Man, Bring The Noise, Keep It In The Family, Among The Living, etc. All of those songs are songs that actually draw people to the shows. They are songs that will be in almost every Anthrax set list both on arena shows with other large metal bands and Anthrax only headlining shows.

There just is not much 'pull' that the John Bush era Anthrax has on a whole.

 

[DMC]

If Anthrax is the only Draw there still wouldn't be much of a Draw for John Bush era Anthrax.

Even when John Bush was the main vocalist the venues were half full at times. The Joey reunion was huge. Most of the tour dates were sold out. Some major cities had to have back to back nights as there was such a demand.

I am honestly not trying to be a dick. But even at a John Bush Anthrax show how many of the fans there were actually there just to see the John Bush songs? I know when I went to the john bush era shows still a majority of the audience wanted to hear the joey era stuff. Thats not a knock against John Bush it is just what the fans wanted to hear no matter who was singing them.

Other than Room for One More, Only, Safe Home there are not many songs in the John Bush catalog that are signature songs. If I am missing any please let me know.

Indians, Madhouse, Got The Time, Caught In a Mosh, Anti Social, Be All End All, I'm The Man, Bring The Noise, Keep It In The Family, Among The Living, etc. All of those songs are songs that actually draw people to the shows. They are songs that will be in almost every Anthrax set list both on arena shows with other large metal bands and Anthrax only headlining shows.

There just is not much 'pull' that the John Bush era Anthrax has on a whole.

Cause joey wrote all those songs and john wrote his, shit anthrax didn't even write a chunk of those you listed. They just singers and people like whichever one they like for their own reasons.
The main thing is when grunge and gangster rap came metal went. Metal has managed to survive threw alot more music trends than others but it is not nothing compared to the 80's. Metal bands don't get a 1/4 of the publicity now days so of course it effects everything, album sales, venue sales, merchandise, royalties etc etc. On top of that with all the issues Anthrax has had over the years with record companies, The disease scare, other legal issues and then all this singer change bullshit. Anthrax is lucky to beable to still be in the game and able to tour.
Take the john and joey albums and sell them in the others time era .
Would there be a difference? I think so.

Cause joey wrote all those songs and john wrote his, shit anthrax didn't even write a chunk of those you listed. They just singers and people like whichever one they like for their own reasons.
Take the john and joey albums and sell them in the others time era .
what would be the difference?

Bush -
Sound of White Noise (1985)
Stomp 442 (1987)
Volume 8: The Threat Is Real (1988)
We've Come for You All (1990)

Joey -
Spreading the Disease (1993)
Among the Living (1995)
State of Euphoria (1998)
Persistence of Time (2003)

 

[esloan]

.

Cause joey wrote all those songs and john wrote his, shit anthrax didn't even write a chunk of those you listed. They just singers and people like whichever one they like for their own reasons.
Take the john and joey albums and sell them in the others time era .
what would be the difference?

Bush -
Sound of White Noise (1985)
Stomp 442 (1987)
Volume 8: The Threat Is Real (1988)
We've Come for You All (1990)

Joey -
Spreading the Disease (1993)
Among the Living (1995)
State of Euphoria (1998)
Persistence of Time (2003)

I will tell you what would have happened....

Anthrax would have never gotten big and would have never made it to 1993 had Bush been the original singer and they had started out writing music like they did with SoWN-WCfYA.

Argue it all you want, but the Bush era songs are followed only by a very small niche audience. Most Anthrax fans DO NOT LIKE THEM. That is why they dropped off so radically from 1993 on, while Slayer, Megadeth and even smaller bands like Testament and Overkill continued on.

And I am not blaming that on Bush, it was simply the change in style. Anthrax tried to follow the trends, they failed and for 10 years they paid the price.

 

[SeaStorm]

I would love to have some concert attendance numbers for this discussion, but I can't locate any. I don't think the concert numbers we saw during the reunion tour are anything like we will see if they tour on a new album with Joey. I think those numbers were pumped way up because it was new, surprising, and probably for a very limited time ("one last trip down nostalgia lane"). I think you're underselling the size of the Bush fan contingent, but I don't have any numbers to back that up. I will make a few personal observations that inform my opinion.

It is extremely difficult to get people 35+ years old (the prime age for us Joey fans) to go to concerts. I have personally promoted two Joey solo shows - one pre-reunion, one post-reunion. I knew tons and tons of local Anthrax fans (Joey-era) from "back in the day" (high school: late 80s/early 90s). I thought I could turn all these guys out to see Joey singing all of their favorite Anthrax tunes (plus the extra connection of knowing the promoter, which means you get to meet the talent and all that good stuff). Of all of the definite Joey fans I talked to, in the end, hardly any showed up to see him: "I had plans that night"; "the venue is too far from my house"; "it's too much of a hassle to get a sitter"; "my wife doesn't want to go"; "I don't like to be out that late anymore", etc, etc. Both shows were on Saturday night. This age demographic is notoriously difficult to turn out to a show, at least where I live. And I think Anthrax will experience that when they do a headline tour with Joey. I obviously hope I'm wrong!

Also, on more than one occasion, I approached people with metal shirts on and asked them if they liked Anthrax. When they excitedly said Yes, I proceeded to tell them all about "Anthrax's lead singer" coming to town for a show. Their interest disappeared when they learned I wasn't talking about John Bush. Most of them basically knew nothing about the Joey-era of Anthrax. And yes, these people were in their 20s.

I guess from my point of view, if they're doing a headlining tour down the road, what's the downside of Joey + John? All the Joey fans who would be inclined to go would still go, plus all the John fans - who would not go otherwise - can go. Win-win. You don't honestly think a Joey + John tour would draw *less* than a Joey tour, do you?

 

[danaholica]

Ive seen Anthrax on every tour that brought them to the Boston area During the Bush era and the shows were packed solid.

 

[esloan]

You don't honestly think a Joey + John tour would draw *less* than a Joey tour, do you?

No, not really. Simply because Joey was on the tour, it would be more successful than simply Bush + Anthrax.

I would, however, be willing to be that if Joey/Anthrax played last, people would probably arrive late and, if it was the other way around, people would leave early.

Belladonna/Anthrax is simply a bigger draw than Bush/Anthrax. There is not legitimate, sensible way to deny that. If you try then you are simply too invested in John Bush to see simple facts.

 

[esloan]

Ive seen Anthrax on every tour that brought them to the Boston area During the Bush era and the shows were packed solid.

Errrr...

Congratulations???

Doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things. Joey/Anthrax is still the bigger draw, by a long shot.

 

[Jono]

*LMAO*, that's exactly the reason why they did the reunion. John took Anthrax to the small clubs that he played with Armored Saint before.

You're such a troll. I say that with love and respect of course

 

[SeaStorm]

Belladonna/Anthrax is simply a bigger draw than Bush/Anthrax. There is not legitimate, sensible way to deny that. If you try then you are simply too invested in John Bush to see simple facts.

Never have I made such a claim, nor would I. Plus, I am not at all invested in John Bush. I'm the biggest Joey fanboy around (save a few songs, I don't enjoy the Bush era very much).

Anyway, my posting was intended for ironmaidenfan09.

 

[esloan]

Never have I made such a claim, nor would I. Plus, I am not at all invested in John Bush. I'm the biggest Joey fanboy around (save a few songs, I don't enjoy the Bush era very much).

Anyway, my posting was intended for ironmaidenfan09.

I am not accusing you of being a fanboy, one way or the other, sorry if it sounded that way. Was not my intent.

It was mostly addressed to some of the other posters out there who think John "saved" Anthrax or catapaulted them into respectability when, in fact, it was just the opposite.

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

I would love to have some concert attendance numbers for this discussion, but I can't locate any. I don't think the concert numbers we saw during the reunion tour are anything like we will see if they tour on a new album with Joey. I think those numbers were pumped way up because it was new, surprising, and probably for a very limited time ("one last trip down nostalgia lane"). I think you're underselling the size of the Bush fan contingent, but I don't have any numbers to back that up. I will make a few personal observations that inform my opinion.

It is extremely difficult to get people 35+ years old (the prime age for us Joey fans) to go to concerts. I have personally promoted two Joey solo shows - one pre-reunion, one post-reunion. I knew tons and tons of local Anthrax fans (Joey-era) from "back in the day" (high school: late 80s/early 90s). I thought I could turn all these guys out to see Joey singing all of their favorite Anthrax tunes (plus the extra connection of knowing the promoter, which means you get to meet the talent and all that good stuff). Of all of the definite Joey fans I talked to, in the end, hardly any showed up to see him: "I had plans that night"; "the venue is too far from my house"; "it's too much of a hassle to get a sitter"; "my wife doesn't want to go"; "I don't like to be out that late anymore", etc, etc. Both shows were on Saturday night. This age demographic is notoriously difficult to turn out to a show, at least where I live. And I think Anthrax will experience that when they do a headline tour with Joey. I obviously hope I'm wrong!

Also, on more than one occasion, I approached people with metal shirts on and asked them if they liked Anthrax. When they excitedly said Yes, I proceeded to tell them all about "Anthrax's lead singer" coming to town for a show. Their interest disappeared when they learned I wasn't talking about John Bush. Most of them basically knew nothing about the Joey-era of Anthrax. And yes, these people were in their 20s.

I guess from my point of view, if they're doing a headlining tour down the road, what's the downside of Joey + John? All the Joey fans who would be inclined to go would still go, plus all the John fans - who would not go otherwise - can go. Win-win. You don't honestly think a Joey + John tour would draw *less* than a Joey tour, do you?

No I hear you. I wouldn't even go see Joey Belladonna if he was solo nor have I ever. Maybe I would go if it was free and I had no other plans. I like Joey in Anthrax but I am not some huge Joey fanatic. I, as most Anthrax fans liked the band best during his era of Anthrax. The key word being ANTHRAX. I want to see him with Anthrax not solo.

Could you imagine if John Bush did a solo tour? Would anyone show up? You'd get a few Armored Saint fans and possibly a few Anthrax fans. But over all with him in Anthrax or Armored Saint not too many people other than DMC or JonnieCzech would show up.

Even when Bruce Dickinson does solo dates without Iron Maiden it is not nearly the same draw.

Jon Davis from Korn did a solo tour and it was in medium sized clubs. With Korn they are an arena band.

I guarantee that Anthrax with Joey would pull a much larger audience at an Anthrax healining show than John Bush with Anthrax.

If you were to promote a tour with John Bush singing all John Bush era Anthrax songs and no classic era songs there would be a very small turn out.

If you were to promote a tour with Joey singing all the classic era Anthrax songs with NO John Bush era songs there would be a large turnout - just like the reunion tour.

So it would be a waste of time to put John Bush on the bill to only sing his era songs because the vast majority of Anthrax fans don't want to hear those songs.

 

[Thrashard]

Could you imagine if John Bush did a solo tour? Would anyone show up? You'd get a few Armored Saint fans and possibly a few Anthrax fans. But over all with him in Anthrax or Armored Saint not too many people other than DMC or JonnieCzech would show up.

JohnnieCzech, antwax, DMC, Deege, Matt Bello & alcoholica are John Bush's worldwide loyal fanbase. *lol*

JohnnieCzech + antwax = european fanbase
DMC+Deege = us fanbase
Matt Bello = canadian fanbase
alcoholica = fanbase for the rest of the world

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

JohnnieCzech, DMC, Deege, Matt Bello & alcoholica are John Bush's worldwide loyal fanbase. *lol*

Which one of these guys above do you think is the guy who posted the "Open Letter To John Bush" article to that metalsucks website?

 

[Thrashard]

Vince Neilstein is johnnieCzech's alter ego.

does mr. neilstein think he can co-decide every step that a band takes?

open letter to james hetfield:

dear james alan hetfield, your last record st. anger sucked, could you please re-record it for me? and please bring back Jason Newsted because i liked him more than Rob Trujillo.

Sincerely, Vince Neilstein


Open letter to Kerry King:

dear Kerry King, could you please record Reign In Blood Pt. 2 for me because pt. 1 kicked some ass?

Sincerely, Vince Neilstein

and so on

dear mr. neilstein, you can't always get what you want!

 

[ironmaidenfan09]

Vince Neilstein is johnnieCzech's alter ego.

does mr. neilstein think he can co-decide every step that a band takes?

open letter to james hetfield:

dear james alan hetfield, your last record st. anger sucked, could you please re-record it for me? and please bring back Jason Newsted because i liked him more than Rob Trujillo.

Sincerely, Vince Neilstein


Open letter to Kerry King:

dear Kerry King, could you please record Reign In Blood Pt. 2 for me because pt. 1 kicked some ass?

Sincerely, Vince Neilstein

and so on

dear mr. neilstein, you can't always get what you want!

By Neilstein do you mean JohnnieCzech?

 

[Thrashard]

yep, last time it was Neilstein, next time it will be Frankenstein! *lol*

 

[scottishthrax]

The following text was originally posted at http://www.metalsucks.net/?p=192

AN OPEN LETTER TO JOHN BUSH — PLEASE COME BACK TO ANTHRAX!

Dear John,
The Internet is a funny thing. Fans of bands have always had unrealistic expectations of the bands they love, and the nature of the Internet has taken this to a whole new level, what with press releases and interviews being released daily and the fans having instant access to everything. Particularly, fans tend to forget that the musicians they worship are real people; they have families, personal lives, and sit on the toilet to take dumps just like the rest of us. All too often fans get caught up in the mantra that what they see of an artist — their albums, shows, interviews, etc — are all that exist for that person, and all too often fans demand musical output in a specific direction, or sometimes just musical output period, forgetting that the people behind this music are, well, just regular people too. It is with this understanding that I urge you to re-join Anthrax for a new album.

We’ve Come For You All is such an amazing album. Every song is solid, start to finish. To me this album represented the culmination of the evolution of Anthrax from the time you joined the band, on through the rest of the ’90s and into the new millenium. From The Sound of White Noise onwards, your writing, lyrics, and especially your voice amazing were a big part of this evolution, saving Anthrax from what would have surely ended up being musical oblivion had they continued on doing what they did with Joey Belladonna. You took Anthrax in directions they never would have imagined, and you managed to keep the band relevant, putting out an album in We’ve Come For You All that stands out as some of the best work the band has ever done.
I fully understand that you’re busy getting on with your own life now and that you aren’t ready to commit to Anthrax. Congratulations on your newly born son. I know that it’s not just as easy as agreeing to write some songs and jam with Anthrax; it’s a big commitment to write, record, promote, tour, etc etc etc, not to mention the monetary issues that I’m sure need to be hammered out. I also totally understand that you wouldn’t want to rejoin Anthrax unless your heart was in it 100%. I get it. It seems from reading this recent interview with Shockwaves that you’re at least open to some future possibility of doing so, but now is just not the time.
So, where all this is going is that I hope you take the time you need to do what you have to do (although personally I can’t imagine how doing voiceover work for Burger King can beat playing to 50,000 people at a summer rock festival!). Rest up, spend some time with the family, and I hope that at some point in the not too distant future you will be ready for another Anthrax record. I don’t think that any other vocalist could do it right. We’ve Come For You All was truly special and you’ve got an open invitation from the band to write a part two. Both Axl and I were shocked when the band announced plans for a reunion tour with Joey Belladonna, thinking it was a big step backwards. I get that you might have been, nay should have been, insulted by that. Now is your chance to make it right by proving the naysayers wrong! I have no doubt that what you can make with Anthrax will be truly incredible. Oh and while you’re at it, get Rob Caggiano to come with you too.

Sincerely,
Vince Neilstein

I love Bushthrax as much as anybody, but seriously, you need to get a fucking life.

 

[EerieVon]

Dear john,
I understand that you were treated horribly by Anthrax Inc, and especially by CEO Scott (Ian) Rosenfeld. I would like to wish you continued success in you voice over career. I would imagine it pays well, you are home with the family, and you don't have to put up with your co-workers side projects like trying to help his wife become famous or poker. If you ever decide to sing full time again I would support it but do it with people that actually appreciate your talents and treat you as a partner not second class citizen.


Vince Neilstein

 

[PoolePaul]

John Bush this/Joey Belladonna that....BLAH DI FUCKIN BLAH BLAH BLAH...John sounds great on blah blah blah, Joey blah blah blah, fuckin derp de derpty derp....seriously STFU....theres my thoughts on it all...Goodnight ladies and genitals...Rant over