OT: Subjectivity and Production

[AmirH]

So here's the story:

For the past few weeks I've been doing paid (cheap- like $35 a song) production work for this white-rapper friend of mine. I had done a track for him about a month prior for fun which apparently got a really good reaction on Myspace because the next thing I know he won't stop calling to get more done. So anyway, the first "paid" track I did for him I spent a shit load of time mixing and the end result was IMO the best vocal production I've done to date. I used rverb to make the chorus sound really airy and huge and basically haven't been able to get any of the tracks since to sound quite as good. What throws me off is this- half the people who've listened to it HATE the production and really like the sound of the first one I did for him. The other half are completely on my nuts. Haha, it's literally like I don't know what I've done right or what I've done wrong. James (rapper friend) seems happy regardless and has been coming in to record on a weekly basis but I'm... confused.

Has anyone else had any experiences similar to this? Anything to say on perception in general? I mean... obviously all of us here are big gorging fans of Andy's work but we've all seen those nasty emails.

Dunno- just thought it might be interesting to talk about

 

[chadsxe]

So here's the story:

For the past few weeks I've been doing paid (cheap- like $35 a song) production work for this white-rapper friend of mine. I had done a track for him about a month prior for fun which apparently got a really good reaction on Myspace because the next thing I know he won't stop calling to get more done. So anyway, the first "paid" track I did for him I spent a shit load of time mixing and the end result was IMO the best vocal production I've done to date. I used rverb to make the chorus sound really airy and huge and basically haven't been able to get any of the tracks since to sound quite as good. What throws me off is this- half the people who've listened to it HATE the production and really like the sound of the first one I did for him. The other half are completely on my nuts. Haha, it's literally like I don't know what I've done right or what I've done wrong. James (rapper friend) seems happy regardless and has been coming in to record on a weekly basis but I'm... confused.

Has anyone else had any experiences similar to this? Anything to say on perception in general? I mean... obviously all of us here are big gorging fans of Andy's work but we've all seen those nasty emails.

Dunno- just thought it might be interesting to talk about

Everyone is not going to like the same thing. You captured a moment in time. Instead of trying to live in the past work on the present.

 

[AmirH]

Not living in the past... in fact I should clarify- this doesn't bother me too badly it just confuses as to what production style I should be using. The first one I double tracked all vocals for an eminem sort of vibe. The paid one sounds very transparent in comparison. The last two tracks I used a completely different chain to compromise. Just thought it'd make for an interesting topic haha.

 

[chadsxe]

Think of it this way. You now know how to get two sounds that you have captured. The one of the past and the on of the present. That means you tools have expanded that much. If the artist request the sound of the past then bam give him that. If he request the sound of the present then bam give him that.

 

[metalkingdom]

How 'bout a link to the song?

 

[dreamcatcher]

So long as James is happy and keeps paying, who cares?

But you can always ask him "Hey, you wanna do it more like that first time?" to see if he's got any opinions on the matter.

EDIT: but don't lay "half hate it, half love it" on him. Best not to stifle creativity with an unhealthy self-consciousness.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

So are the new songs up on MySpace? Because if that's where you're getting hte reaction from, that could be part of the reason. Firstly it kills songs anyway, and secondly the average web-surfer has rubbish speakers with no low-end - which can make reverb-heavy tracks sound nasty, especially on simple arrangements where it's more noticeable.

When I did my band's demo, it was the first thing I've every done; I hadn't even mic'ed a cab before. The first time through, it came out sounding very live and quite messy, and it annoyed me to hell. I've re-worked some of those tracks now, and the news versions are tighter, neater, punchy, clearer, EVERYTHING about them sounds better - but I still know people that like the orignal versions more.

The way I see it is this: when you're recording you basically have two choices. You can try and keep the sound straight, keep everything plain and solid, and hope lots of people thinks it's decent and solid. Or you can try and go for a specific sound and be a lot more precise about what you want - and chances are you'll split people over whether it's stunning or crap. The best productions come from people that can balance the two - I think Mr. Sneap is a good example of that. His work definitely has it's own character, but it's not overpowering. I love the sound on Arc'Tan'Gent by Earthtone9, but listening to it now I've got an interest in the actual recording, I think the sound was fitted to the band rather than making the band fit - that kind of mix will never sell, and whilst the band may love it, I'm not sure their label would...

Sorry for rambling, it's 4:45am

Steve

 

[AmirH]

So are the new songs up on MySpace? Because if that's where you're getting hte reaction from, that could be part of the reason. Firstly it kills songs anyway, and secondly the average web-surfer has rubbish speakers with no low-end - which can make reverb-heavy tracks sound nasty, especially on simple arrangements where it's more noticeable.

When I did my band's demo, it was the first thing I've every done; I hadn't even mic'ed a cab before. The first time through, it came out sounding very live and quite messy, and it annoyed me to hell. I've re-worked some of those tracks now, and the news versions are tighter, neater, punchy, clearer, EVERYTHING about them sounds better - but I still know people that like the orignal versions more.

The way I see it is this: when you're recording you basically have two choices. You can try and keep the sound straight, keep everything plain and solid, and hope lots of people thinks it's decent and solid. Or you can try and go for a specific sound and be a lot more precise about what you want - and chances are you'll split people over whether it's stunning or crap. The best productions come from people that can balance the two - I think Mr. Sneap is a good example of that. His work definitely has it's own character, but it's not overpowering. I love the sound on Arc'Tan'Gent by Earthtone9, but listening to it now I've got an interest in the actual recording, I think the sound was fitted to the band rather than making the band fit - that kind of mix will never sell, and whilst the band may love it, I'm not sure their label would...

Sorry for rambling, it's 4:45am

Steve

That makes a lot of sense actually!

I'll have to be sure to ask James if he had a preference when we record again next thursday. We've basically been doing one song a week and just getting it as polished as possible on the day we record. It's not so hard to do with rap/hip hop thankfully due to the fact that beats are programmed/pre-produced. Even the one I programmed for him was relatively easy to engineer. All I know as of now is he isn't as keen on doubling all the vocals.

As for links... hmm, I could upload a couple but I'll warn you right now- it's just what I said it was. White rap. Not exactly the sort of sound we shoot for in this forum Besides- that wasn't so much the point of this discussion.

 

[metalkingdom]

We've basically been doing one song a week and just getting it as polished as possible on the day we record. It's not so hard to do with rap/hip hop thankfully due to the fact that beats are programmed/pre-produced. Even the one I programmed for him was relatively easy to engineer.

As for links... hmm, I could upload a couple but I'll warn you right now- it's just what I said it was. White rap. Not exactly the sort of sound we shoot for in this forum Besides- that wasn't so much the point of this discussion.

I was asking for a link not to critisize the music, but to hear your production in question. If you think that making rap music is easy, then I'm sure that your production is weak.

 

[AmirH]

Yes, I understand that- and it was my understanding that this forum was mostly based around production in heavy music. In any case, it would be nice to hear some criticism from someone with more experience so here ya go. I wasn't trying to say it's easy- the vocal production is harder. But the beat is generally a lot less headache to deal with than say... raw drums and heavy guitars. I can't really take 10 hours per mix on this anyway y'know- or I'd be making like 2 bucks an hour.

The first one that people like for some reason:
http://download.yousendit.com/DD7CB23C3356FEF4

The one I'm a bit more proud of:
http://download.yousendit.com/66E1101A658F51F6

 

[Radd]

So here's the story:

What throws me off is this- half the people who've listened to it HATE the production and really like the sound of the first one I did for him. The other half are completely on my nuts.

Too many people are way too picky about almost everything = people suck.

 

[Radd]

The first one that people like for some reason:
http://download.yousendit.com/DD7CB23C3356FEF4

The one I'm a bit more proud of:
http://download.yousendit.com/66E1101A658F51F6

Both sound good to me production wise. I like the second better though also both production and song wise. This could be due to the fact that there is not much going on with the first one song wise. I'm not into rap at all. I went through a phase back in the day with some now old school stuff like N.W.A., Snoop, & the all mighty Public Enemy; "...Nation of millions...", aaawww yeah!