Palm Mutes

[Downtuned]

Hi folks,

It's been a while since I've been on here or been recording for that matter but some friends have asked me to record their new album for them so need a bit of advice on an old problem.

I'm doing a few tests right now and I've got a great guitar tone using the Lepou amp sims and recabinet impulses with KeFIR and I add a bit of room reverb using SIR 2 to get a bit of 3D crunchiness on them.

My problem comes in the palm mutes in that when I start to introduce the bass and drums I seem to lose the low end "JUN" if you know what I mean (That low end swell that comes just after the initial attack which is the meat of a palm mute). All I seem to hear coming through is a sort of papery fizziness when everything is going together.

I figured it's a frequency issue but honestly I've tried EQing the life out of the bass and the drum track but it doesn't seem to do much.

I'm wondering if it's a compression issue instead as I am compressing the guitars a tiny bit just to even them out but in saying that when I solo the guitars they sound great. Is it maybe the bass guitar isn't backing it up enough? The bass is there and steady but I'm not sure it's punchy and I don't even know if this would have any effect on the palm mutes of the guitars.

I've also noticed it gets worse when I do a bit of quick mastering, especially when I pull down the limiter the palm mutes just seem to really thin out. Everything's gain staged correctly and as I say the guitars sound awesome on their own and even the open chords sound great but the palm mutes just seem to lose all their fatness.

Is there maybe a good compressor setting that really would bring out that chunk of the palm mute?

Sorry I don't have any clips to post as I don't really have any songs it's more a theoretical question.

Thanks!

 

[xPoopsx]

If the low end in the guitar is present when the guitar is solo'd and disappears with the rest of the mix, then it might be a phase issue with the other tracks. I would try flipping the phase on the guitar bus or the guitar tracks to see if the low end comes back in.

 

[Jormyn]

- If you have any master bus compression, that can do funky things with low end peaks like palm mutes.

- If the bass and drums are going, you don't have a lot of space for your palm mutes to go "oomph". If the palm mutes are living in a particular range, like the usual insane peak around 150Hz that we typically EQ or multi-comp the shit out of, you could ease up on that processing a little and make a corresponding cut on the bass and kick.

- In really shitty cases, or for a specific effect, I've heard of guys using a synth kick or sine wave programmed to the guitar rhythm, EQed so they only provide that "kick you in the chest" range. Not the worst idea, especially if your tone is completely gutted by the time you rein in the palm mute resonance.

 

[Downtuned]

Thanks for the replies folks. I manage to get it sorted a 'bit' by dipping the drum bus and the bass at around 400hz but the other culprit seems to be the SSL compressor I usually have on the master bus at the start of my mastering chain. It was going a little mad when the mutes started happening so I think it was squashing them down so I may have to do a trade off with some glue for dynamic impact.

This has always been a problem for me since I started recording heavy music so I guess it's as good a time as any to get surgical with it!

 

[bryan_kilco]

If the low end in the guitar is present when the guitar is solo'd and disappears with the rest of the mix, then it might be a phase issue with the other tracks. I would try flipping the phase on the guitar bus or the guitar tracks to see if the low end comes back in.

In theory, this wouldn't accomplish anything. Unless the guitars were a single take, copy/pasted and panned.

 

[Downtuned]

Guitars are just double tracked and pretty much the same settings but I'm using two different sim heads but the impulse is the same one.

I'm wondering if it's partly an issue with my mastering technique as it sounds not too bad with absolutely everything stripped down to just the mix and when I play through it live with my guitar the mutes are mighty. I don't hit the mix particularly hard with the SSL Comp on the master bus either, just a 2:1 setting and 1-2-dB or two reduction. Same with the limiter, I just get it to where it's comfy which is usually -2-4dB of reduction.

Andy is really good at preserving thick palm mutes in his mixes. I noticed that on the last Megadeth album where some of the faster palm muted bits had a perfect individual low end punch, though he always says the bass comes from the bass so I am wondering if it's the bass set to punch a certain way and it's that I'm hearing on those mixes but I think it's meant to come from the guitars.

 

[Heabow]

Hard to tell without listening... Sounds like you have to work on the bass & kick to let room for the guitar body. Also try using multiband compression to have more control on the low end (possibly on the bass and rhythm guitar tracks/bus and/or master bus.. depends on the context). If it helps, then try a light compression on the masterbus and adjust from there.

Needless to say that the playing is really important. It has to be punchy, constant and solid.

 

[nezvers]

I never liked boom from palm-mutes, I like to calm them down with multi-band comp almost limiting them so it stay not far from moment when chords are open.

 

[Jormyn]

You could also consider a bit of multi-comp on the master bus just to keep the bass under control when you have Palm Mute + Bass + Kick hitting at the same time - this would let you get away with more low end on the guitars the rest of the time if you're having trouble controlling them without it sounding anemic.